Mom Talk – Part 13

Question: You’re in an elevator with your kids and a pregnant woman who says that she’s due with her first child in a week. She asks for your words of wisdom. You’re getting off at the next floor. What do you say?

I’m not great at thinking on my feet. If someone asked me this question I’d probably just exclaim something totally useless like “Oh wow! Congratulations! So exciting! It’s not easy, but you’ll be fine!” Then I’ll kick myself because I’ll have wanted to say:

Prepare for the unexpected. You literally never know what to expect with kids. There is no such thing as a plan because kids and life don’t follow plans. You can have a contingency plan when things don’t go the way you expected, which will be most of the time. But your contingency plan also won’t go the way you thought. Motherhood is a bunch of unknowns. It’s known unknowns (will your child be a good sleeper? Will you be a yeller?) It’s unknown unknowns (you never thought to consider whether you’d watch actual human poop come out of a runaway toddler). It’s unknown knowns (you don’t realize yet that you’ll recognize the difference between a tired cry and a wet diaper cry). The one thing it’s not is known knowns (you can be 100% confident of nothing.) You cannot know what this tiny being will be like, feel like, sound like, grow up to be like, grow up to look like, or anything else at all. All you can do is realize that and prepare yourself to face the smallest and the biggest obstacles.

Take care of your body. You’re not eating for two. Yes, you are growing a child. Yes, you may nurse a child. But that doesn’t give you free rein to eat anything and everything you want and crave. Exercise and eat well. If you’re not in the habit already, get into the habit now. It will not get easier as time goes on to develop healthy habits. Maybe after the first kid you’ll bounce right back to your pre-baby weight and shape but maybe not. And maybe the second or third time suddenly the weight won’t drop off and you’ll be pinching rolls in places you’d rather not. I wish someone had told me to take care of myself better or I wish that I had believed the people who tried to tell me. Trying to develop good habits now seems like an uphill battle— undoing the effects of every bagel and ice cream I just had to have. It would have been a lot easier to prevent seven years ago rather than repair after the fact.

I didn’t ask this question to the first few moms. One mom mentioned that she thought I’d ask for advice and I thought, yeah. That’s a good idea. It’s funny because moms tend to hate unsolicited advice (doesn’t everyone?) But if someone actually asked for it? Moms overwhelmingly find as many different ways to say: it will pass; it’s a phase; it’s hard for awhile, but things will get better; you will get through this. Moms also say: don’t be consumed by guilt; try to enjoy it; love your kids and embrace them for who they are; love your baby; it’s not how it seems on television and Instagram; there’s no one right way to do things; sleep; take care of yourself; trust your instincts; ignore unsolicited advice; know that you can never be fully prepared; realize that you’re not failing and that it’s hard for everyone.

The answers:

5. I would say just really enjoy it, don’t be too hard on yourself, just know that everything for better or worse is a phase and that no matter what happens— whether you nurse or do formula or the baby is colicky or not that all the baby really needs from you is to feel loved so just to show that to the baby and everything else will just fall into place.

6. At any step of this process it will pass. The feeling will pass. When I went to this mom group it started because we were all nursing our kids. It was a nursing mom thing. Some people had trouble and we would talk about some of the trouble we were having and the key words were: this too shall pass. This too shall pass. And I think that new moms always need to realize that. This is going to suck. It’s going to be amazing. All of it’s going to just keep going.

7. It’s a rough start but things will get better. That’s what I’d say. I’d say one other thing. I’d say in delivery just remember: do what’s best for the baby. And I say that all the time whenever I see a pregnant person because— and I don’t know if it’s as much of an issue here— but in the U.K. there was a big emphasis on natural birth. And everywhere you go people are, like, trying to drill into your head whatever you do you should have a natural birth and you should avoid any sort of drugs. And one of the things that I struggled with a lot after having my first is that it didn’t end up being a natural birth; it was an emergency C-section. And at the time one of the things that I regret about that, even in the moment when the doctors were like, “your child cannot breathe we have to take you into the theater” I was like, “no, it’s because you’re not letting me sit on the yoga ball and letting me move around the room; they told me in my antenatal classes I have to be able to walk and you gotta let me sit on the yoga ball.” And I look back at the time and think, how could I be so stupid? But it was because they drilled this idea into your head and you lost all perspective. I’m like, actually I just want to do what’s best for the baby. It’s probably not as big of an issue here. But in the U.K. any time I came across anyone that was pregnant my only advice was, just listen to what the doctors say. Because the other thing that they go on a lot about there is breastfeeding and, again, you have a lot of women who just can’t and the amount of guilt they’re ridden with— it’s very hard to recover from at a time when you’re already not particularly strong and you’re constantly beating yourself up about that fact that somebody told you you shouldn’t take an epidural, you shouldn’t have had a C-section and you should be breastfeeding as long as you can. Of course that’s the idea but if medically you can’t for some reason— it’s okay!

8. You will have your moment but try to enjoy the growth with your kid. The first two years might be really hard because you might feel like you’re a cow, literally, a pump machine but everything will become later on the achievement in life and you will enjoy more. So just hang in there and you will see the light at the end of the tunnel. That might be the thing I wish someone told me. I’d rather know. You and your husband won’t have a life but just hang in there. It will be better.

9. I’d tell her it’s going to be a little tough at first but then, they always change. So whatever hardship you’re struggling with, whether it’s reflux or lack of sleep— because that’s how you should go into pregnancy, is with the right expectation. It’s going to be a little tough but it always changes and always get better. I always say that to new moms.

10. I would tell her to not get consumed by guilt. I would tell her that there’s a lot of opportunities for mothers to feel guilty or bad about things and not to spend too much time in that world— to try to pull herself out of it. To just be present with her child. And just make the most of every moment with the child. Just to be present is so important. And just to enjoy the time with your child. Not to let that guilty voice go off in her head all the time. Just to live life. Be herself. Let her define being a mother for herself; don’t let other people tell her what her expectations should be or could be. Don’t let them put their expectations on you. Just be yourself. This is a small example but women have so much of that coming at them I feel. I feel as I get older they talk about things like, I think Gloria Steinam used to say, “you don’t understand what it’s like to be a woman in the working world until you’re actually in it and you’re being discriminated against and then you see it.” And she’s right. I found out I wasn’t paid the same as a lot of men in my field and it’s horrible.

I think that women have a lot of expectations put on them that aren’t really accurate or realistic from other people. I had a woman come up to me one time and say, “you’re small so you’re going to have a cesarean. You’re probably going to have one.” And I was like, “why would you say that?” and she was like, “well because you’re little and you know—” and to me the thought of a cesarean was not a great thought because I understood that it meant a lot of discomfort. And I know that’s okay, women have it, of course. But she immediately pegged me as someone who was going to need to have it. And my mother never had one and my mother was also petite. It has nothing to do with your outside body it has to do with your body internally.

So you get these people, they’re not even badly intentioned people. It’s not like the world is always mean. There can be plenty of people meaning to be kind or helpful but they’re not being helpful. So I think you have people coming to you with lots of thoughts and ideas about you and expectations about you that might not necessarily be accurate and I would just tell her to listen to her own voice and let her develop her own way of doing things and be a mother in her own right. And to kind of shake off the other stuff and just let it fall off of her and their expectations and their guilt and those things and just be herself. Just be herself. That’s all you can be. I think it’s hard to do. We all get caught up in it, and you do have to pull yourself back.

And also to tell her that it’s okay to take time— time out for herself without feeling badly about it. If she’s getting over stressed or over tired or burned out you do need a little bit of me time. And you just need to try to find ways to take it. Or say to your spouse or your significant other or whoever is on hand to help, you know, I need a few minutes. Just give me some breathing room. Just please cooperate with me and work with me and let me have my time so I can recharge myself.

I would also say not to get caught up in being perfect. There is no perfect. Just do things in a way that feels good and natural to her. I think that’s important.

11. Just to enjoy every moment. Don’t let one second slip away; it’s very precious. I think every day is beautiful but when I look back in those first few days are so good. I still miss, you know, kids touching you everywhere.

12. Mom: Enjoy every moment of it.* I feel with my daughter I wanted to go back to work and I kept wishing she would be older. Wishing— when she’s two or when she’s four or when she’s in preschool— and one of my biggest regrets is that I sort of wished away things waiting for something else to make life easier for us. So I would stop. Try to be more present in my life with my daughter and my husband.

What would you tell that lady?

Daughter: I’d probably give her my email address.

Mom: Say, “I’ll get back to you.”

Daughter: You know, for me it would be like: sing a lot, read a lot, remember that this baby is yours. He’s going to be like you and not like you in all the right and all the most annoying ways. And that eventually they sleep. Eventually they smile. And don’t be afraid to ask for help.

Mom: That’s a good one.

*I asked a follow-up question here: it’s something people say, “enjoy every moment” How do you respond to the idea that it is impossible to enjoy certain moments?

Mom: My perspective is looking back. When it was happening and she had a brain tumor and we were in the hospital for a month it’s hard to enjoy those moments or be present in those moments; you want to run away from those moments. Enjoy the moments that you can. When she’s playing or happy or you’re all well. I have a habit— I met someone once who does the same thing— of stopping at a certain time and saying: oh this is really a good moment. And I started it when she was about 7 and we were in Paris and we were walking. My husband was on one side and I was on the other and we were holding her hand and she was not quite seven in the summer and the weather was beautiful. And I started a habit which I do which is: I’m always going to remember this minute. And I have a whole list of them. Of consciously taking that. And I’m sorry I didn’t start it earlier than when she was almost 7. And those are the moments at night when I can’t sleep that I go back to: that walk in Paris, the Reber award- when she won the Reber award, her plays, my husband’s contacts in new york and having dinner with Norman Podhoretz at Commentary and meeting a Supreme Court Justice through my husband. These very special moments that I have because I consciously thought: I’m always going to remember this.

Daughter: I think that, to your question, you know, what about the moments you can’t enjoy? I think that there are moments that you have to survive but I prefer moments you endure. And those are moments you can look back on as moments of strength and that— you’re as a good mother in those moments that you endure as the ones where they’re so happy and they’re so successful and you feel very proud.

But there are other moments. So my friend gave me an example. She was holding her niece and she just cried for hours and there was not anything she could do. She didn’t know what was wrong. She said, “I just had to let her scream in my face for a few hours; and then at the end of the night my sister came home and said oh look there’s a tooth coming out.” She was teething. There wasn’t much they could have done to make that better. There are moments you just sort of have to endure and you’re not failing as a mother in those moments, you’re succeeding. Because you’re letting them feel their feelings. You’re letting them scream in your face which is, in a way, can be harder for you than it is for them to scream in your face. And that there are moments that you endure but those are valuable. They’re not enjoyable. They’re not moments you’ll replay. But to sort of bank them. You’re their mother because you let them scream in your face for hours and you can stand it. It means you love them even more than those who would just be like: oh it’s so much fun to be with you and then you cry— I can’t do anything for you! I’m handing you off. Although I’ve done that too. But I think there are moments you endure. They’re not worth nothing; they’re worth something.

13. I think I would say it’s been impressive to me how resilient kids are. It’s been impressive to me how much insight they have about themselves and maybe we don’t give them enough credit. I think given the unique circumstance of this situation, I don’t know if I can articulate this well, I feel like if we were a more traditional family you go into it believing that the harder you work at it the more perfect you can get it; but maybe because we were inherently given a “not perfect situation” it gave us the freedom to be okay with letting it be. Because of that it’s turned out awesome. In my mind it’s: recognize the boundaries of what you actually can control; try to have that recognition of what you can actually control. And since it’s such a small part of it, sometimes letting it be is allowing it to be as perfect as it can be.

I think if I thought this was going to be longer term then it would be harder to follow the advice that I’m giving myself right now. Then I would feel more compelled to nitpick over stuff that I know probably doesn’t make a difference but I think I wouldn’t be able to help myself. I almost feel like in some ways knowing that it’s transient allows me to have that perspective. To a fault of my own personality I think I would end up perseverating on stuff in retrospect—

Knowing that it’s temporary in theory should make it easier to not get attached but I feel like I’m already struggling with that. That hasn’t paid off or helped in the way that I hoped it would.

14. I would say that, you know, you’re never really prepared for everything that comes your way. Obviously its a good idea to educate yourself as much as possible and, you know, get different opinions on things. There’s no right way to do anything; there’s lots of opinions about the right way to do a million different things and you have to do what’s right for you and your family. You really, especially in the beginning, you have to go day by day. And to be honest I think there’s still a lot of that that happens with little kids. You make plans and you have to be prepared to change. I think flexibility is a huge thing with motherhood. You really can’t plan too much day to day.

15. Someone just told me their pregnant. She was like, “I don’t know if I’m ready for this.” And I was like, “you are!” and then I was like, “no! You’re not. No one ever is and that’s totally cool. You figure it out. It’s totally fine.” Honestly I wasn’t the type of pregnant person who read all the books, which is funny because I am sort of type A so you’d think I was trying to be fully prepared. I think I was just trying to roll with the punches about it and I feel like that served me, at least my personality, because rather than feeling like I had some expectations that needed to be fulfilled that then became a source of anxiety or something it was just like: here’s a baby.

Acutally some of the words of advice that are so simple but I’ve taken them with me – when my first was getting discharged from the NICU— he was early so he was in the NICU for 3 weeks— he was fine and is fine thankfully. But the doctor, his overseeing doctor in the NICU said as we’re literally getting strolled out of the hospital was like, “feed him and love him that’s all you gotta do. Feed him and love him.” and I was like that’s so good; it’s so simple. you don’t have to worry about them doing things on a timeline. People would be like, “oh, they’re 9 months old but they’re not—” and I’m like he’s not going to be 12 years old and not walking. It’s fine. It’s fine.

So anyway words of advice: feed him and love him, I guess. It was just so pure and simple from the doctor. I don’t have stringent views on parenthood whether you should breastfeed or formula feed or sleep train or not sleep train. For me it’s like you do what works for you. If that’s being super regimented, cool. If it’s not at all, cool. I know that’s like a movement to support all mothers which I agree with but I think it’s also just, to me, it’s like practical reality. Everybody’s doing their best. You’ll figure it out. Take care of him. Don’t be an asshole.

I do like being informed. I like knowing all the things, all of the options, what’s the right thing to do? Because that’s the other thing: I’m not an expert in this; someone else is. I do have views that I adhere to in terms of like, I’ll go to a website and if it’s like “How to Be an Authoritarian Parent” that’s not going to be my jam, right? But there’s one called Hand In Hand Parenting and I sometimes find their articles helpful in terms of things like how to handle outbursts or something. And I ask my pediatrician a lot of questions and sometimes I agree with what he says and sometimes I’m like I’m not gonna do that.

16. Trust your instinct. You’re the mom. Do what you think is right. I’m not going to say, like, “do this or go buy that” I think you gotta learn it. You can do it. I think that’s something people don’t say especially nowadays with social media and Google, right? There’s a plethora of knowledge out there and moms are always being questioned. “Why are you doing that? We never did that with you guys when you were younger—” Well you know what Brenda, who fucking asked you? Nobody asked you. You know, people feel very free and liberated to give their opinions to people when they’re not asked for. If somebody asks me— if I don’t know a person: hey you know what, you’re going to do a great job. You’re going to love that baby. Love your baby. Do what you think is the right thing. Because how the fuck do I know? Every kid is different. There’s no formula for raising kids. There’s no right or wrong way it’s just different. I think building up the moms. Stop making moms question everything, right? I feel like my mom’s generation I feel like they were tougher. They were tougher. They didn’t have, like, oh let me check to make sure she’s getting enough calcium or whatever. I was like, eh, have some chocolate milk you’ll live. I mean we all lived. We didn’t have fucking car seats. How am I still here? I didn’t have a car seat! My parents put me in a seat belt but I’ve been in cars with my friends when I was a kid and they didn’t even fucking put the seat belt on us. Or you go to the park and you’re standing on the swing and you try to purposely flip over? I mean the fact that I’m alive— The shit that we did. I mean I did some sketchy shit as a kid. If my fucking kids ever did it— I would chain them to the door handle and be like now you’re going nowhere. I know they’ll never get away with it. I know what goes on.

17. I would say my words of wisdom would be: it’s really, really hard and don’t feel bad that it’s really hard. Don’t feel like you’re failing because it’s really hard. It’s just really hard in the very beginning. I mean it’s hard the whole time but that to me was the biggest. I wish someone had just said to me: you’re going to feel like a failure and a mess the first few weeks because it’s so hard but everyone feels that way. Nobody told me that. I wish. I would have felt so much better if someone had said to me: the way you feel right now, that you feel so defeated— but no one said that to me. I would have said it’s really hard but it gets so much easier but don’t feel like a failure because I felt like a failure and like a terrible mother because it felt so hard to me. That’s what I would say. I would not give them fluff. I would just be like it’s okay to feel that way. It’s going to get better but it’s going to be really hard and you’re going to be fine. That baby’s going to make you crazy for months. You are literally going to have another human being attached to your body for months and you are just going to be a mess and it’s okay.

18. I tend to always give people advice about sleep because for me that was so formative in my early motherhood that I tell people just, I know it’s cliche people say try to sleep when your kid is sleeping and of course you don’t want to you want to do all the house errands and have time for yourself but sleep is really important for mental health so make sure you get it somehow. Ask for help so that you can sleep.

19. No one will know your children the way you know them and trust your maternal instincts. It’s God-given. I believe in it; don’t talk yourself out of it. Trust those maternal instincts more than anything else.

20. To be present in every moment with her children and to enjoy every minute because it goes by so quickly.

21. Enjoy it. You’re so like, “this is hard, this is hard, this is hard” and then it’s gone. Like the stage where he couldn’t go anywhere and was just sleeping and snuggling was so fast but it felt so intense. So yeah. I would just say enjoy it and be present. And I think people gave me that advice but I don’t think there’s any other advice that you could give someone that’s helpful. Maybe readjust your expectations.

22. I would absolutely say what I’ve said to my sister: there’s more than one way to do things. That’s my advice. There’s no right or wrong. Even a mundane thing like putting a diaper on. Or when your kids get older you just do your best. I’ve said that to many a person. Because otherwise you put yourself under too much pressure: oh I should be doing this I should be doing that or, “my husband, I can’t leave him with the baby because he doesn’t know what to do—” because there’s more than one way to do things.

23. Decirle que encomiende su hijo a Dios.

24. Go with your gut. Because I think that was really helpful for me when I was recognizing you can just listen to yourself not in an arrogant, close-minded sort of way but just trust yourself. My best friend told me that and I think that was valuable. Trust yourself. You know what feels right for you. And I think so many moms don’t because there is so much information and everyone does things so differently and it’s so confusing. Once you take that in as something that you should be doing versus another option it gets really overwhelming. Go with your gut and make time for yourself even though it seems so impossible and downright selfish make time for yourself whatever that is. For me it’s to exercise but some people it’s like shop, nails, whatever works I guess. But I’d say trust yourself and make time for yourself.

25. I would say, basically, don’t worry about what everybody else is telling you: other older women in your life or even your other mom friends, like, advice or what you should or shouldn’t be doing because you’re going to know your baby very quickly. Whether or not you recognize it. And if you’re really scared, call the pediatrician because they don’t care. But yeah that was the most irritating thing for me was hearing from parents and grandparents and even neighbors who have kids who are already teenagers or whatever hearing like, “oh, when my son or my daughter— we tried this—” Just don’t. I don’t want to hear the suggestions. I appreciate it, but if I really need some help I’ll call the doctor. That kind of stuff. That’s me personally. Drove me nuts more than anything else. That and I’d also probably tell her about her nipples because nobody told me. If no one’s told you yet: breastfeeding is really hard. And I would tell her to download the Tiny Beans app which has been a savior for us. It’s basically like baby Facbeook kind of. It works wonderfully.

26. Nothing will ever go exactly as you want it to so don’t expect that. And enjoy the moments because although it sounds trite and some of the days are years you have to enjoy them even—I don’t know— even the chaos and the crazy feelings and try to take a step back every now and again to appreciate it.

27. Try not to worry too much. That’s me, what can I tell you? And realize how lucky you are to have this time of life and remember that it doesn’t last as long as it feels that it’s lasting. That’s the other thing you feel that every minute— every stage is going to last forever when they’re little and it really doesn’t.

Coming up: Mom Talk – part 14 – What didn’t I ask you?

Mom Talk – Part 12

Question: What do you want most?

Once people have kids they tend to be like: I’d throw myself in front of a bus to save my child. I have to be honest. I’m not saying that if push came to shove I wouldn’t throw myself in front of the bus, but thinking about it now? I can’t, in all honesty, say I’d willingly do it. I know that makes me incredibly selfish but I’m just too afraid to die. I want my children to live long happy lives and I want to live a long life to watch them be happy.

Two months ago, when I thought of what I wanted most in the world, well, yes I thought about the health and happiness of my children. Very vaguely. I didn’t know what it would take to make them happy, of course, but I knew that I ultimately that’s what I wanted them to be. I also thought about me. I wanted to be happy. I wanted to be fulfilled. What would have made me happy before? It would have been great if my husband could have been home more. It would be nice to spend real, quality time together as a family. I would have loved to not have to run around like a lunatic shuttling my children around from activity to activity but also not to then feel incredibly guilty for not ensuring they were developing skills to put on their college applications.

In the past two months our lives have fundamentally changed. This global pandemic has disrupted every life on the planet. For me in the past two months: my husband has been home more. I’ve spent real, quality time with my family. I’ve had the most incredible break from shuttling my children around from activity to activity and I don’t feel remotely guilty because no one’s kids are spending this time furthering their resumes. I have the things I wanted— the things I thought would make me happy. And they do. I am happy.

So now with a new perspective and outlook on life what do I want most? I still want health and happiness for my family and for me. I want the coronavirus to pass us by and leave us unscathed. I want my kids to get through this with resilience and strength. I want them to return to their social, public, community lives carefree and untroubled. I want them to love school again. And I want the same for every child. I’m not super excited for a world where my kids succeed more than other kids because I had the flexibility and ability and resources and environment to help them through homeschooling. I think right now more than anything what I want is a world where children are not punished for circumstances beyond their control.

The answers:

2. There’s the cliche happy, healthy child and if everybody else goes with that I want to go with that. And happy, healthy husband. He’ll be offended if I leave him out. And happy, healthy me. Outside of that I would like for us to be comfortable enough and settled enough where we can go we can have adventures; we can spend more time together as a family and see more things— have more experiences. I read something this morning— some Oprah quote— of course it was— it was something along the lines of, “square footage doesn’t fill you up” and I really resonated with that. I have more square footage than I could ever imagine but it doesn’t fill you up; it’s the experiences. So. So more experiences. Together.

3. In what category? I have a lot of things. Legacy. I want to be able to, like, if I drop dead in a week I want to have left something behind that is somewhat meaningful that has helped people, touched people in some way, that my kids can say, you know, look back and say my mom did great work. My mom did something that— there’s a reason why she went to work. She had a purpose and a mission and it wasn’t just random.

4. I really want my kids to find a productive, happy ,healthy groove and to be close enough to me that I’m part of it or that I get to talk to them about it. I don’t have to be in the trenches with them but I want to see them fly and pull people with them. If I never had another car and had to take a bicycle everywhere— if I had that I need nothing else.

5. I want my kids to always feel like we are their biggest supporters and biggest fans and they can always turn to us no matter how old they are. I want them just to feel like we are so trusted and we are always on their side and we have this unconditional love no matter what they do. I want that when I think of the future of our family.

6. I want my children to be kind and resilient and grateful. And hardworking. One of the things— I remember when Steve Jobs’ book came out— when Steve Jobs was a thing there was this quote that used to fly around: “if you love what you do, you’ll never work a day in your life.” And that quote pissed me off because anything, anything that you love takes hard, hard work. I don’t want my kids to ever have the notion that things are just going to come easy to them; they are going to have to work. I felt like when I was young I was naturally smart, I was naturally okay at everything. I didn’t really work hard. I didn’t start to work hard until I was out of college and I feel like I could have— I don’t know— I could have made more impact if I had done that earlier on in life. I want to instill that in the kids now: that if you want something you might be okay at it to start. For example, my older daughter is showing natural talent at gymnastics. Okay, well you wanna do gymnastics? Guess what – you have to practice every single day. You have to work at something or work hard at things. So hard work is very important to me and when he said that I was like, yeah you’re giving the wrong idea to people; this is not the right idea to have.

7. For me or as a mother? I just— it’s probably very selfish— if I had to prioritize anything I would prioritize their happiness over anything else in the world but most importantly and not that it’s within my control but I would wish that they would just be healthy. And it’s absolutely out of my control. But it’s all I could ever hope for for them. Totally out of my control and totally selfish. I could say “world peace” but I know that we’re not fighting for that every day.

8. Right now? What do I want most? I think that keeps changing. I can recall when I was little or up to 30 I always want to be the person other people want me to be because I care so much, I couldn’t accept failure. Keep studying so much to go to the best university in China then came to the US, whatever. Everything is how other people see me. But now— what’s the question again? Now I just what I want most is, well again, before I was hoping to find my passion, hoping to be the person I could be and now I think I’m getting there sort of now. I think everything sort of came together. I think we also heard about Steve Jobs speech; he talk about connecting the dot. So okay I put so much effort in studying to help build my brain. It helps me now because managing kids is not easy. Your brain needs to function, multi-task all the time. So that helps me as a mother. So then it comes to me, what else I was working on, public speaking. To be honest I started Toastmasters three years ago. I was kind of have my judgment about the program because a lot of persons in the program don’t know how to speak why do I need to join this program, learn with a bunch of people don’t know how to speak? But I was in the program 2, 3 years and it helped so much because you just need practice; all you need is practice and you can change. And same for the workout— you just need to keep going. So I think it all came together because you just put some effort in there and all you need to do is just try a little longer and you will find out the joy, the achievement through it. So I think it all came back together, put together that it helped me find my passion. I mean this job is not easy either because I never done marketing. And me and my partner fight so many times. I cried. I literally cried so much. And she doesn’t know. It’s okay. But I think I know it’s important to keep going because I’ll overcome whatever is not working until the moment it start to work. I don’t know if I answer the question.

9. I want my kids to be happy. And my husband, right? I want my family to be happy, to live their best lives. Everybody is going to go through hard times especially at school but I want them to be able to come out from it hopefully and not too scarred; just happy.

10. Another child definitely. I would stand on my head for half an hour; I would do whatever someone made me do if I could have that. I just think it would round things out so nicely. I think it would bring contentment. I think that would be the most satisfying thing to me.

11. For my children to grow up as good human beings. Kind and generous. I would love for them to go to a good college, but if they don’t at least they should be very kind and generous to people.

12. Daughter: I want him to be happy and healthy and I want to build a life that is— that works for everyone in my family. I want to take him on trips and I want to read books with him and I want to keep writing and I want my husband to like his new job and be happy in it. I want to meet other mom friends. I just want to figure out a way to piece it together. Maybe that’s not super articulate but that is what I most want.

Mom: Just health and more years with my husband and for them to have what they want. To be a part of my grandson’s life.

13. From life? I want to live— I can’t think of a better adjective— but a full life. I want to feel like I have leaned into— again, not to have buzz words but I can’t think of a better way to say it— every potential thing I possibly could and that I realize my full potential. I think that for me would be considered success.

14. Honestly? I think a big piece of it is just to have happy, healthy kids that grow to be happy, healthy adults. And have a tight family unit. I think you know that my husband’s parents split so that’s not lost on me that you really have to put the time and effort into your own relationship as well. But I think happy, healthy family unit and like I said, that they grow into well-adjusted children. I think that’s pretty much the most important thing to me.

15. Sleep in? What do I want most. I think probably what everybody wants most which is to live a fulfilling life where I have, for me, personally, accomplished things professionally that I’m proud of while being the kind of mom that I want to be and the kind of wife that I want to be and the best version of myself and the best version of my life? I’d really like a beach house? I mean yeah, fulfillment and happiness. And a beach house. Fulfillment and happiness to me but that encompasses the fulfillment and happiness of my family. And health obviously for the people that I love. Is that too much to ask?

16. Happiness and health. I don’t need money. I don’t need things. My brother is not a well guy. He has a mechanical valve. He, my brother, almost died like 9 times just from random shit that’s happened. So I think when you’re faced with that you look at life differently. My husband has never— he hasn’t faced major adversity. His dad does have dementia now so this is his first dealings with— My mom, she’s 75, she’s still sharp as a whip. I couldn’t imagine seeing a parent— and to see what he was. He was this tough, big, strong guy and, you know, the disease totally took him over. But still, he’s ticking! He’s tough. My father in law is badass like a tough guy. I say to my husband— you don’t know. To live— you have to live your life. If you don’t have your health, you don’t have anything. My dad died and my brother almost died. It was a lot to deal with and you just appreciate the little things.

My brother came here for Thanksgiving and he was in the hospital a few days before he came and I was like oh my God he’s not going to come and he came. He fucking drove from Chicago to come here and I was so happy. Because all I wanted was just to be with— you know because I don’t have a big family— so my brother is the only thing I have besides my mom. So I think health and happiness. Because everything else is trivial bullshit: keeping up with the Joneses and who has the better car and you know the bigger ring or house or whatever. Your grave’s the same size. Right? Like, stay humble type of attitude. You have your health? You’re good. When I got really sick— it grounds you. Ask any person dying of cancer: what do you want? They want their health. They just want to be healthy and happy. That’s all I want. I don’t care about the other shit. I do like a nice purse or something I’m not going to say I don’t like that stuff. But when you get down to the nitty gritty, it’s the simple things. Life is simple. It is simple. People are odious creatures. People complicate stuff.

17. Honestly the thing I want most is happy, well-adjusted kids that grow into adulthood. What I want most is my kids to outlive me. That’s a terrible thing to say but it’s something that’s always in the back of my head that I think about I just want my kids to outlive me in the best way possible.

18. You know, I always want all the people that are around me that are in my inner circle and that I love to be happy and content. I’ve always been a person that just has a lot of empathy for others and sometimes it’s bad for me because I worry about them more than myself; but you know I want everybody in my family to be healthy and happy. It would be really nice if the world could be that way too but I don’t really think I have a lot of pull to make that happen. I guess I want to feel self-actualized and now that my daughter is approaching full-day school that’s kind of spinning around in my head a lot; because I don’t know whether for me that means kind of re-exploring my professional career or, you know, pursuing artistic things that I kind of always told myself that they were unrealistic as a job and now I don’t really need a job so maybe I should do those things because they make me feel good. I don’t know. I’m not sure. I’d probably be healthier if I could tell you.

19. For myself or—? At the end of the day I just want to be comfortable and healthy. Comfortable to me is not stressing. I feel like my husband and I spend a lot of time stressing about how we’re going to do this, how we’re going to do that. I want us to be comfortable where that stress and strain is not there. But, you know, again I think that I’m grateful. My mother always told me when her mother moved out she rented a room. And her mother told her to be better than her so she moved out and moved into an apartment with my dad. And then I moved out into my own apartment and now I have a house. So she wants me to pass that on to my children, you know, since we have a house that they have to have a bigger house and better. Maybe not feel the stress that my husband and I feel to give them what we give them. So yeah, I think I’m happy overall. I’m in a good place. But I’m still striving to be better. I don’t feel like I need to keep up with the Joneses or anything like but just a little more consistency would be helpful. We’re grateful: good health, we’re homeowners, we have two beautiful children, they’re doing well, they’re in great schools. You have to take your blessings as they come and I’m definitely appreciative of that. So I’ve been happier. Happy would just be the removal of the stress elements to have all those things.

20. Honestly, all I want is for my family to be happy and healthy. That is all I have ever wanted, and has been my one “wish” on every birthday since I was a little girl.

21. Just like happiness for my family and I want him to have what he needs and be happy and have love. I want to enjoy that with my family and my husband.

22. For my kids to be happy.

23. Verlos formar una familia y nos hagan Abuelos.

24. My initial answer was just, like, I just want to be happy whatever that means. But it’s almost like I just want to be comfortable. But I really just want our kids to be comfortable and confident and safe and happy. Those are a lot of things. It should be confident first because if they can be confident in themselves and learn to make good choices and be confident in their choices and trust themselves and I can see that then I know I will be more comfortable especially as they’re getting older. It’s not that I don’t want things for myself but I think I will be a happier self if I know that I will send them out into the world and I don’t have to worry every day that one bad thing is going to ruin their whole lives. And I think a lot of that comes from confidence and ability to make the right choices for themselves. My husband and I talk about that all the time. Because I have everything tangible and intangible so there’s nothing to want. So it’s almost like I want things to stay as they are or on the same path. That’s not to say there aren’t going to be bumps but just general safety, low drama. I think that’s what I want. A healthy life for me and my family.

25. Well, because of having the two kids, not that I didn’t want this before, but I would really like to know that like financial stability just in terms of their education or anything they would need in the future that that just wouldn’t be an issue. That money would just never be an issue. Because I would, you know, just seeing older kids in the neighborhood where they’re going to colleges and things like that it’s just like, I want every opportunity for them basically that money can buy. It probably sounds really awful and disgusting but that is honestly. And also because I was just so scared of all the things that could happen to them I would just want to know— this sounds ridiculous— that I could quit my job, for example, so that I could stay at home just to be like watching them all the time. With stupid stuff. Waiting at the bus stop. Walking with them to school. Obviously you can’t watch your kids 24/7. Emotionally that’s not good for you or anything but I would just want to know that like, yeah, I just— I just would want to know that they were safe at all times.

My mom said no to us for everything, all the time, it was always no. and we always had to get our own jobs whether it was like my sister and I were babysitting all through high school and then I worked through college. My brother was working at the Great Swamp Greenhouse through high school. She never gave us anything. But when push came to shove if we found a camp or something that we wanted to go to like a sports camp or when any of us got into college it was never a question, like, yeah you’re going to this school, don’t worry. It would just kill me if either of my girls were crazy smart and they got into some amazing college that I would have to say no, we can’t do that for you. Or like a program, like if it was a theater program, if it was anything and just having to be like no, you can’t follow that dream right now because Mommy and Daddy can’t afford it and there’s no scholarship. I would hate to have to say no to them. Because I feel like we do have a happy house. And I’m not worried about the laughter and the love that they’re going to feel from my husband and I. I’m more concerned about when it comes down to just like logistical stuff. Then again I also told my daughter that a fan would chop her fingers off the other day so I don’t know, maybe I terrify her. She’s gotta be afraid of me a little bit. Or at least the fan.

​26. What do I want? I want to be healthy and happy and have my family be healthy and happy and grow old and see them thrive and I want to be a grandma and a great-grandma. And be healthy enough to enjoy it.

​27. Oh gosh. That we should all stay healthy and well and live through this most challenging time. Deal with it in a positive way. I have to say I’m just – because of the timing of this— it just overwhelms everything. It puts into highlight how—what’s the word—how precarious everything is in a way that until now I’ve taken so many things for granted.

Coming up: Mom Talk – Part 13 – The Elevator Question

Mom Talk – Part 11

photo credit: Stacey Ilyse Photography

Question: What is the most impressive thing you have ever done?

This was one of my favorite questions because inevitably it led 27 regular women to do some self-reflection about their lives in a way that they normally wouldn’t. And to toot their own horn in a way that normally isn’t encouraged. Usually regular people don’t have the opportunity to answer questions like this. Usually it’s celebrities who are asked to reflect on their lives and toot their own horns: athletes, movie stars, musicians and other people who are admired. Ordinary moms should be admired. Toot, moms, toot.

It’s great that there are articles like the one from Oprah Magazine: 31 Celebrity Moms who Inspire Us Every Day. But we’re not all celebrities — mostly we’re not. I get annoyed with those articles because, while I suppose it comforts me that Reese Witherspoon and Chrissy Teigen have sleepless nights and never stop worrying, I resent a little bit the fact that the only moms who get the spotlight are people already in the spotlight. Mom Talk – Part 11: 27 Ordinary Every Day Moms Who Inspire Me and Will Inspire You Today and Every Day.

This is one of those questions that reveals my interviewer bias. Or if it doesn’t reveal it let me reveal it to you now: to me, far and away the most impressive thing I’ve ever done is give birth to 4 children and keep them not only alive but thriving. Sammy was 10 pounds at birth – just saying. When I asked this question in my interviews some moms questioned: personally or professionally? Some wondered— is this related to motherhood? Some flat out couldn’t think of anything. I just assumed every mother thought being a mother was the most impressive thing. Not necessarily. Some yes. What about the others?

Moms are impressed with: their professional accomplishments, growing and birthing children, overcoming personality flaws, cooking a meal that makes the kids happy, community involvement, volunteer work, achieving a balance between personal and professional lives— the feeling of doing it all, surpassing expectations and achieving more than would have been expected, athletic accomplishments, mothering, explaining things so their kids understand, making a sacrifice for benefit of the family, committing to a partner, raising good humans, surviving and thriving through hardship and heartache, becoming less selfish, graduating college, making a difference in people’s lives, managing the day-to-day, and postpartum sex.

The answers:

1. In life? The most impressive? I don’t know. How does one answer that? How would you answer that? That I don’t know.

2. On a personal scale or professional? So through work I was doing some really sexy projects and it was a lot of fun, got international coverage. It was really— it was tiring but amazing to do and amazing to see that I figured out those loopholes to do this and it was fulfilling in a way. But all of that— last year my daughter had some health problems and we didn’t know what it was for 9 months. And her lips were turning blue, she wasn’t breathing, she was vomiting. Part of that was happening in the middle of the night and I sort of had a revelation that none of my accomplishments were worth it; none of my professional accomplishments were worth it, and I didn’t care. And so I gave that up. Because I was juggling two businesses at once and they were both successful; I had the production consulting and I had the law practice and it wasn’t— production wasn’t worth it. Law isn’t worth it either but Mama has to pay the bills. So I just cut it out and I honestly haven’t really looked back. I looked back once or twice and I sort of miss it but I don’t at all and just had to move forward. So professional accomplishments, while they’re great, they don’t mean that much to me anymore after all that. And thankfully we figured out sort of what it was and we have a plan now and the symptoms have gone away and she’s been cleared by Children’s Hospital. It was a terrifying 9 months. It was terrible. And no one really understood. I didn’t really let people in. I isolated myself. It was a really bad time all around.

3. Other than grow two children in my body? That’s impressive to me. I know trillions and trillions of women have done this over the years but I still think it’s frickin’ crazy. So that’s one thing— two things because I have two kids— I’m so like I can’t believe this child came out of my body and that I grew it in my body. I know that’s how it’s supposed to be but it just still shocks me. What’s the most impressive thing I’ve ever done? Honestly I don’t think there’s any singular impressive thing that I’ve ever done. There’s nothing that I’ve done that impresses me. I’ll let you know in a few years.

Overcoming my own personality flaws has impressed me. That’s more to do with business than anything else but, you know, speaking in public, for example, is something that is just not my personality; it is not something I used to do. I used to get petrified even to get up and make a toast at a dinner table and now I can do it with ease. That was something that I kind of overcame and I’m definitely impressed with myself. But I’m equally impressed with myself I put dinner on the table and one of my kids says, “this was delicious, it’s the best thing I’ve ever eaten” and I’m like, oh my God I can’t believe I cooked a meal that my kids say is really good. When they’re like, “this is delicious, I love this!” That makes me feel so good. I’m like oh my God they liked something I cooked— that’s amazing!

4. Is this related to motherhood? That is a super hard question for me to answer because I’m not used to talking in those terms. It’s so interesting. So, impressive to other people I feel like motherhood gets taken for granted, right? Like that’s sort of a drumbeat background thing. I think to the external world my work for the synagogue and helping kids go to school for less money and getting involved in the community and reducing barriers for them maybe. I get the most feedback for that.

My kids are my most fundamental achievements— that’s for sure. Impressive I think is external. To me the word impressive— I mean the implication— is how the rest of the world sees it.

I feel like motherhood is undervalued and I feel like volunteer work is undervalued and I feel like volunteer work is fundamental to shaping society. Life and children and family are a combination of momentum, evolution and design and it’s where we apply our energy that we can shape and lend momentum to the things that are important to us.

For sure my kids are the most important. Stemming from that, my synagogue volunteer work. Being president and turning around an organization— a community that is important to me— from financial catastrophe to regular non-profit status where it’s never easy but we are doing pretty well towards achieving a pretty important mission— I feel really proud of that. Partly in the context of my kids but partly in the context of everybody’s kids. I want a really strong community in a world where on a scary front antisemitism is growing and on a positive front what makes our life enriching and has meaning and community— whether or not you believe in God whatever your theological perspective— community is a part of that. Community is important. When my kids were little in the preschool I loved that school. It was the greatest. When my kids were in middle school I thought: wow the preschool was great! What they really need right now is those preschool friends that we’ve invested in to walk into this building and feel safe and secure no matter what they’re wearing because middle school’s rough man— emotionally rough— so a community that carries and nurtures, you know, the people where, you know, we picked our family and our friends as a supplement. So I feel really proud of helping that thrive.

5. I mean, I wouldn’t really call myself impressive. But I would say something that, I think rolling into the happiness question, what gives me happiness and what makes me feel fulfilled and whether it’s impressive to other people or not is sort of impressive to me because it’s what’s important to me is sort of that balance that I was alluding to. So when it’s days when I really feel like I have been doing a great job at work and I’m really around for the kids or it’s everyone just getting along and I’m also still able to catch up with friends and see them for dinner and be really on top of my personal emails and make dinner for a friend who just had a baby and just, like, do all of these different things that are all really important aspects of my life, I think that’s where I feel I’m most impressive to myself because I’m sort of, like, doing it all. So yeah, that’s what I would say.

6. Shit. Impressive. I don’t think anything I’ve done is impressive. I think if I tell my story to people about how I grew up and where I ended up I think that’s impressive to other people. I don’t think I did anything extraordinary to get here. My parents immigrated to this country when I was 5 and my sister was 9. Lived in jersey city with my grandparents in a three bedroom apartment for my grandparents, my parents and me and my sister. Went to public schools. I did go to Catholic high school— my parents did work very hard to send my sister and I to private school— but grew up in the middle of Jersey City. Dealt with the things that kids in Jersey City dealt with and, you know, went to Rutgers. Went to regular college. And now, like I said, I’m living in this town and we are comfortable and, again, I haven’t done anything outside— I landed at Cisco as an engineer. Statistics would tell you that is not very likely but I never saw it that way. I just sort of lived my life and did what I thought was interesting and this is where I ended up. So I don’t think there’s anything impressive I’ve ever done except just ignore the world and keep going, keep moving forward.

8. Anything? Like I never thought I— I’m not an athletic person but I’m into this it’s called Orange Fitness Theory or something. So I started that a year ago. It’s just a mom friend encourage me to go so I tried it out. It’s pretty intense. It’s an hour class. It’s row, treadmill, and weight combined and you work out; your heart rate goes up it’s orange because your heart rate goes up to a range; it keeps orange or even red so that you burn more calories so that in an hour I can burn 400, 500 sometimes— that’s a lot for me. At the beginning I never thought that I could last; I thought this is a month thing. But then I just kept going back so I’ve been doing twice a week for more than a year now. So because I’m doing that, I’m eating healthier, pay attention to what I eat so I think overall I’m healthier as well and that helps you. The more workout you do the more energetic you are. Before I never realized that. I’m so tired! How can I go work out? I don’t get these women probably ran 2 miles, 3 miles every day and now I get it! Because once you’re into this mood or this momentum or this routine you keep going back. I never know I could do this. I don’t think I ever miss a class. And that also helped me doing tennis because it’s not just technique; you need the strength, the stamina, because you need to run. How do you last an hour running around? This helps. So it helps me better at tennis as well. It helps me enjoy it. And now I get it, like, before— I’m Chinese— so sports is not a big thing for us— stereotype again— but now I get it because, like, it bring so much joy to you and energy and joy so I get it now. I get it when I’m 37 but at least I get it now.

9. I always think about, well, who thinks it’s impressive? I think my family would say just being a mom. That’s what my husband would say— just being able to balance everything. He always says that I do it all and that I’m always improving. I always try to improve so I’m never complacent. I always am looking for the next improvement and I think that’s impressive.

10. Oh my gosh, as a mom? The most impressive thing I’ve ever done. That’s hard; that’s a good question. What have I done that’s impressive. I don’t know. I don’t feel like I’ve done anything impressive. I’m thinking. Impressive. Ah, I know. So when I try to explain to my son what happened to the moon when the moon was first formed the way that it hit Earth. It was called Theia. I was explaining to him a scientific idea because sometimes we watch videos together and we were watching a video of how the Earth was first formed and he wasn’t fully understanding it. So I broke it down for him and he liked the way I explained it to him; I was trying to tell him: first it crashed into the Earth and he was like, “why did it crash into the Earth?” And I try to explain to him about gravity. And I think he’s starting to understand what these things mean. And he’s like, “what is gravity?” Well when the ball rolls down the hill you can see the force of gravity. So he was starting to get it. He liked that we were talking about it. His eyes lit up because it’s something that he really enjoys thinking about. So I think I felt satisfied at that moment because it was the first time that I explained something to him scientifically that I felt like he understood. Normally if he doesn’t understand he would ask more questions or say I don’t get it. I think he understood how I explained it and I thought, okay, he got it. Great. So that was kind of cool.

What else? Sometimes he asks me to draw things that I don’t think I can draw. And I’m like, I can’t draw this 3-D dinosaur that you want me to draw. Then I started drawing it and that came out pretty well, like you could identify it. I was like, “do you know what it is?” he was like, “yeah, I get it, it’s a dinosaur.” I’m like, “do you like it?” “Yes.” I’m like, okay solved. Problem solved.

Other things are, sometimes we get compliments from other people when they see us explaining things to him. Little moments and I don’t think it’s impressive, per se, but it’s nice to get that positive feedback. I was once explaining to my son why it’s important to wash his hands and what germs are and it’s important to use the lacing your hands method and that kind of thing and one lady came up to us when we were in Savannah, Georgia and she said, “wow, I can’t believe you take the time to explain that to him.” So she seemed to like that and I thought to myself, most moms probably do that, but it was nice that she acknowledged that. It was one of those moments where you thought, maybe I’m getting better. Maybe I’m on the right track. So those are my moments, my little moments.

11. I put my very high-flying career back to be with my children. It was very, very, very hard. But I really had to sit down multiple days just all by myself to figure this out that: is this the right thing? And initially I kept on feeling: it’s not the right thing for me. I put in so many years of education. But then I just was not happy that I did not have enough time for my kids. And I was like, you know what, it was very hard but I just think it was one of the best things I have done for myself and my family. But more for myself than my family I would think.

12. Mom: School was easy. Motherhood was hard. I would say motherhood. That’s the most impressive thing for me because school came easy and that all went fine but I think motherhood. Motherhood is hard.

Daughter: I would second that in terms of— I don’t think there’s any one thing that I feel particularly proud of. And I don’t think I’ve necessarily handled early motherhood with all of the grace and strength that one might hope for. But more than I thought. More than I suspected. Like the day after he was born I thought: I’m not gonna make it; this isn’t gonna work. So I think— I don’t know. I think that I’ve had a baby that people say seems happy and that I also had to fill out my third year tenure statement while I was, like, a few weeks out. I was like, hand him over to mom for two hours. That I was still able to do those things. Not necessarily as well as I could have before and maybe I wasn’t quite as in tune a mother because I was doing those other things but the fact that I tried to do everything and he still seems okay. Statement turned out fine.

Being able to build a life— that I’m starting to build that life that brings in the things that I care about and the people I care about is what I’m most proud of. But it’s still a work in progress. And some days I think I’m just not doing either and other days I wake up with more of a positive attitude and I think: I’m doing it! I’m doing it. He took a nap on me, then I gave him to his dad and I wrote those three emails and that’s what I did.

13. You’re saying in general—

I think the most impressive thing I’ve ever done is— I think it’s committing to my relationship with my husband. Just to choose— like I said I’m a pretty type A person so I feel like I’ve had other more impressive accolades. I’m ambitious and I want to achieve things. But truthfully the hardest thing for me is that choice to every day get up and show love to someone in whatever form that needs to take for that day and to choose to do that over and over and over again as you both evolve as people. Being able to do that probably for me is the most impressive.

14. Gosh I don’t know. I don’t know that it’s the most impressive thing but I think it was really difficult when my dad was sick trying to be there for my mom, my brother and also raise children and have a spouse. I think going through a difficult time like that was super challenging and somehow everyone was still okay in the long run if that makes sense. I don’t know, I think getting to the other side of that was really big.

15. I think it’s in the future because it’s not yet. The most impressive thing I’ve ever done. Like as a parent or in general? I mean I guess you could say the most impressive thing I’ve ever done is have kids but it’s not that it’s that impressive; I mean, you have sex and then you have a baby so it’s kind of amazing that that’s how it works. For some people. For some people it’s different.

I think if my kids wind up being well-adjusted good citizens of the world I’ll feel really good about that. I just realized I don’t have full control over that. I don’t know. The balance of running a business, starting it, and then having a family and trying to keep all the balls in the air? But I don’t know if that’s impressive as much as literally what’s needed for survival. I don’t know. I’d have to give that some thought.

16. I would say the most impressive thing that I’ve ever done would probably also be the hardest points in my life and there were two. One was when I was 19 and my dad died very suddenly. I think people can take adversity and sadness and grief and shock and they can do one of two things: they can face it and overcome it or they can succumb to it and just let it drag them down and use it as an excuse. I sort of just was like, okay, this is my new reality and so, you know, I finished college and I was like, I’m gonna go for my Master’s. And I worked full time, I went to school, and I put myself through two Master’s programs. I wasn’t handed anything. I had to work and earn for every single thing that I have. And I think that that shapes you. It makes you stronger and it makes you— you are hungry— I was hungry. I wanted to do it and I like doing things myself because I like the way I feel when I do things for myself. What was the question again?

So that was one. The second one has to do with this little guy [her dog]. Back in 2011 I just wasn’t feeling right. I went to the doctor and they were like, “oh, you’re anxious you probably need a Xanax.” And I was like, “no, I’m not anxious. I’m anxious because I’m telling you that I don’t feel well and you’re not hearing what I’m saying.” So I was saying that my heart was pounding. It was beating really fast and I wasn’t exercising. They said, “oh, you’re probably having a panic attack” and I said – no. So I said, “listen, here’s what we’re going to do— give me a Holter monitor and let’s just see. What do you have to lose? Give it to me.” I had to advocate for myself and speak up on my behalf. Long story short, I did have a heart condition called SVT where the electricity in your heart— everybody has a pathway that regulates how many times your heart beats in a minute. My heart had an extra pathway so that when the electricity took the wrong path my heart would speed up and race. Even if I was sitting on the couch my heart rate would get up to like 190. And it feels weird. And it sort of messes with you because it was right when I was like, you know, thinking we were going to start to have a family and like, can I have kids? Should I divorce my husband so he can go meet somebody else so that he can have kids?

So I went through it. One procedure was unsuccessful; they couldn’t do it. And I was like I’m not going to be on medicine for the rest of my life. Understand that I am a big ball of puss: needles, everything freaks me out. And I think a lot of it has to do with my dad dying very suddenly, like, I’m a little bit of a hypochondriac. And I think it stems from losing him suddenly. But I found another doctor and I went to him and he’s like I can fix you and I’m like let’s go. I’ve got shit to do, I want to have kids, I want to get back to me. He fixed me. I went in cold turkey. No sedatives, nothing, up— like up— in the OR, like, they put two catheters up your groin, and they basically put this thing on your heart and they flick it. I couldn’t believe I was doing it; I was like oh my God I’m such a badass. But he fixed it. And that got me— I was like if I can do that, I’m pretty good.

So it relates to my dog because when I first got sick after the first time they couldn’t ablate me successfully my husband got me a dog. And this is him— and he is my little buddy. He makes me feel better. So I would say those are the two things.

My dad had an infection that got into his blood stream and he died of septic shock. My dad was someone who never went to the doctor. I saw him go to the doctor two days before he died. And they told him that he just probably had an ear infection that’s why he was dizzy. I wish sometimes— when I was in my procedure I remember I was like— Dad, you gotta come down and do me a solid. I was like get me through this, push me through it, give the doctor strength. I’m tired of being scared all the time that I’m going to have an episode. I’m angry a little bit sometimes because he should have gone to the doctor. He missed a lot. I had just graduated from high school so I didn’t even start my life, really. He just missed a lot. But, you know, it is what it is. I think he’s here. I think he sees stuff or that he’s aware. You have to have that little inkling of somehow— It shaped who I am though.

What happened to me in my childhood or my life that made me face it and not succumb to it? That’s something I think about when I raise my kids. They have it a little differently than I had it. I was a little hungrier. I didn’t live in a big house. We had a nice apartment; it was an apartment. We weren’t rich by any stretch of the means but I was happy and I never thought about stuff like that.

I want my kids to have character. I don’t want them to think that everything just comes to them. I want them to see that other kids don’t have stuff. Because you have a nice room full of— you have a playroom. I didn’t have a fucking playroom. I had a couple of dolls, some board games and that was it. If I had ever said I don’t want to play with this anymore my mother would have chucked that shit in the garbage and been like, okay! Sometimes I’m a little— I don’t want to say ghetto or tough with them— but I threw away one of their toys once because she was like “I don’t want that” And I was like “garbage.” And she was shocked. Yeah. There are kids that don’t have toys to play with or don’t have a snack to eat, or clothes or a book to read, or whatever the case is. I want them to understand the world is not rainbows and butterflies, but at what age do you teach that? My mom’s like, well maybe wait a little while. Because it builds character. It’s going to build your character. But I don’t know how to teach that. Do you have to live it in order to understand it? My kids have a fucking pool in our yard. You know what I mean? You’re lucky, right? They do chores. I’m like, “make your bed.” My older daughter is like I don’t know how. And I’m like, “no problem, I’ll help you.” The playroom’s a mess. When they come home they’re going to clean it. Because if they don’t, I’m going to grab a garbage bag. You’re going to learn. I really think about that a lot. They’re not living it. And I think that you learn things through experience.

17. I should say the children. But I don’t know. That’s a really great question. I’m really proud of the fact that I worked my whole life to get a college scholarship to FSU to play soccer. But I mean if I really want to say impressive— that I’m a mom right now. It’s still— like I said— when I walk through the city I’m like, I can’t even believe sometimes that I’m not just thinking of myself. I thought about myself a lot. I’m not a super selfless person. I mean I am with friends but I’m pretty self-focused and now that I’m not so self-focused it’s definitely, I guess, impressive that I’m more focused on two other people. I have no big feat.

18. Hm. Well obviously just physically birthing a child is a miraculous and intense event that if somebody asked me if I would be able to do it before I did it I would say no. And I only had that experience once; I’ve heard from other people it gets a little better over time. Becoming a mom was definitely one of them. I don’t feel like I have any other huge momentous accomplishments. There are things in my life I derive pleasure from, there are things I think I’m good at but motherhood is probably the most important thing I think I’ve done.

19. Wow. That’s so interesting. What is the most impressive thing that I have ever done? I’m a girl from the Bronx with awesome parents and very humble beginnings and I do think it’s pretty impressive how my parents’ upbringing have let me to where I am because things could have gone very wrong very many a day. Our building was nice but the neighborhood was not the greatest. It was rough. It was rough, you know? There weren’t those expectations. They don’t expect where I come from— the fact that I went to private school— everybody teased me and called me uppity. It just was not the expectation to rise and to— even just to become a homeowner, to go to college. But those were my parents’ goals. To me, the most impressive thing I’ve done for my family was to be a college graduate. My mother went but she went after she already had children and they wanted me to go. That’s not the way that you should go but they wanted me not to struggle. So my family, the most impressive thing I think, which is probably something that’s very simple for others but it wasn’t for my family at all was to go to school on time and graduate.

And for myself— probably my career. I’ve done a lot of good things in my career. While they’re small things for some people, I know that there’s a lot of children out there in the world today that will remember me, you know? My homeless kids, I got people to donate money to take them on a trip to Sesame Place and they were just so grateful and so happy. I changed that homeless shelter around so that my kids were ready when they went to school. Because back then in NYC you didn’t have to go to school till first grade. So they didn’t have to go to Kindergarten. So a lot of them were going to first grade and just didn’t know anything. They didn’t know their ABCs yet and they were just already behind. So we had an on-site childcare and I worked with them to make sure that these kids knew something. I told the parents: bring those children down. If they didn’t bring the children down I sent the workers up to get them. I don’t care if the kid’s in their pajamas, bring them down and let them learn. So I feel like there’s a lot of families out there that feel strengthened from my work and I’m very proud of that. I want to make a difference if you can. I want to give them what I had. And a lot of people just don’t know. They don’t have the information. If New York City says you don’t have to send your kids to school till first grade then, okay, I’m a 21 year old mother; I’ll send them in first grade. They don’t know. So things have changed since then and now they have a Pre-K 3 and they can start going from 3 years old but before that it wasn’t. Personally that’s what I’m most proud of. Those little things.

20. Raising two incredible children who I just adore and love with every ounce of who I am.

21. Like besides this? I do feel like this business is a big deal for me and it feels in many ways like my first child. And they feel like— obviously I love him more than I love my business— but it feels like a similar life accomplishment.

22. I can’t think of anything.

23. [No response.]

24. As a mom? Or like before? I don’t know that there’s a specific instance that comes to mind. There must be something where I’m like that was awesome. In my head there’s some sports-related things that I was like, that was really great. But, like, that’s not the most impressive thing I’ve ever done. I think of it like a specific time or instance where I did something that I felt was, like, above and beyond or that came naturally to me that was, like, other people wouldn’t necessarily have done it. Or like it almost feels like a defining moment. When you say what’s the most impressive thing. If it were like an early promotion or saving someone or I’m not sure. What do other people say?

I don’t know. The first thing that comes to mind is like, what are my characteristics that define me? When have I displayed that in a major way? My first thoughts are like when have I stood up for other people when they haven’t stood up for themselves or when have they needed help and I was there? But those are small moments that weren’t small for me and them but small in that, like, those are more everyday things. The first thing that came to mind, and this wasn’t even that impressive, but like my daughter got— one of the hardest days I ever had— she is really good at the doctor. She loves it. She talks about shots and vaccines all the time. It’s not a big deal. And she had all these splinters and she lost it. She was in the doctor’s office and they had to take them out and she’s screaming and they had to put her in the papoose and it was terrible and I came home and I was so drained. I had to look away from her so she couldn’t see that I was crying because I was like, this is terrible this is everything you don’t want to be happening. So in my own head it’s impressive that I was able to get through that, but like, not really because 1. You don’t have a choice and 2. It had to happen and lots of moms have to do that all the time so it’s not particularly impressive; but that was something that came to mind so it must have been something that made a big impression on me.

I think of it as something that makes you stand out in a way like who you are and— not better— just everyone has their strengths so, like, this is where you’re excelling. So in my head the way that I excel is my ability to be there for other people so I’m trying to think of a time when I was really there for someone else but a lot of those are smaller day-to-day things. I don’t know. I’d have to think about it. I’m sure there’s something.

This isn’t impressive to me but my husband travels a lot and it’s fine but then I have to maintain two kids and two dogs and that’s not that big a deal to me because this is my life. But we were at my parents’ beach house and I didn’t bring the dogs and one of the kids was like why didn’t you bring them and I was like well your mom and dad asked me not to and their mom was like, “well it’s a lot for your aunt to handle two kids and two dogs” and I was like, “that is my life: two kids and two dogs.” Maybe it’s a lot but I don’t think it’s a big deal so maybe that’s what’s impressive: my ability to manage the day-to-day without feeling super overwhelmed all the time. So maybe that’s it: just like, I’m impressed with my own ability to manage our day-to-day without feeling overwhelmed. But I don’t think that’s the most impressive thing I’ve ever done. That’s just me figuring out life. This is like doing life.

25. I mean I would say having these two kids. That and the postpartum sex after 6 weeks because you’re taking one for the team there’s just no doubt about it. There’s just no winners there. Well your husband— your partner’s the winner. But definitely having the kids.

After my first— she was born in early November. So right around Christmastime was like the 6 weeks and I was like, alright merry Christmas here we go let’s try it. And it was horrible. And I didn’t think it was going to be that bad because I had a C-section. I was like oh, it’ll be fine. It was horrible. I felt like worse than being a virgin again. I was like take it out. Take it out. I don’t know what we need to move this process forward but this is horrible. And it took us a few months for me to feel like I wasn’t sacrificing myself. Not to be too graphic.

26. As a mother? Hm. I don’t know. That’s an interesting question. I don’t think I’m a particularly impressive person. This is going to sound like nothing. It really isn’t much but I would say managed— I don’t know— sometimes I think keeping two children alive is impressive. So I’ll go with that. Keeping two children healthy, happy and alive and also managing without losing my mind when I was 9 months pregnant with a 4 year old when my husband was in the hospital with his appendectomy. Not like a marathon or anything but, you know. That’s where my mind goes. 

27. Giving birth. I’ll tell you a funny story: I remember when they wheeled me out of the delivery room with my first and I looked around and I thought to myself: everyone here was born. Somebody had to go through this for every person walking on the Earth. I was astounded. 

Coming up: Mom Talk – Part 12: What do you want most?

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Mom Talk – Part 10

Question: Are you happy?

I will admit “are you happy?” pre-pandemic and “are you happy?” post-pandemic look different. We’ve been socially isolating for 2 months now. Am I happy? I mean yes. But I’m sad my kids can’t be with their friends and teachers and I am very aware that no matter how much I try they are not going to be as prepared for the next grade as they would have been if they had been in school this whole time. And I’m distraught over the kids who are simply unable to keep up with school work whether it’s because their parents are working or they don’t have a computer or internet. And I’m struggling to understand how we as a society are going to rectify the massive inequalities that are emerging as a result of this pandemic especially for the kids. I’m so sad for the kids. I’m anxious about the future. I’m scared to get too close to my friends but I am desperately missing them. I am worried. I am confused about what the world will look like when we go back into it. And then I feel a tremendous sense of guilt because I am in a position to feel all of these feelings and then close the door on them and fall back on happiness. Yes the world is crumbling around us but I have the luxury of staying inside and maintaining my health. Yes the future is uncertain but we are, for the moment, secure.

Am I happy? Yes, thank God. Are other moms happy? They used to be. I don’t know how their answers would be different now and maybe they wouldn’t be different at all. Moms base their happiness on so many things:

Happiness based on balance. Happiness based on gratitude and acknowledging good fortune. Happiness based on no regrets. Happiness based on acknowledging imperfections in self and life and striving for better. Happiness based on self-actualization and independence. Happiness based on achievement of childhood dreams but not contentment— wanting more. Happiness despite hardships and challenges. Happiness despite not having the life you imagined. Happiness based on good relationship with partner. Happiness based on gratitude. Happiness based on children but still striving to achieve the life you imagined. Happiness based on living life goals but fear of what now? Happiness even though there are other feelings too. Happiness based on satisfaction with life— not feeling jealousy or envy for someone else’s life. Happiness based on accepting the life that unfolded. Happiness despite envy and what if.

The answers:

1. That’s a loaded question. In many ways yes, but I’ll always play the what-if game. In most ways yes. But I’ll always play the what-if game.

2. Mhm. Yes. I can say that I’m happy. There are other things that go on in my life that I’m not happy about but motherhood is not one of them.

3. Yes! Oh my God. I have so much to be grateful for. I was having lunch with a friend of mine who’s the same age as me in the city. She’s turning 40 this year and she’s like, “you know I’m so depressed I’m turning 40” and I’m like really? You are beautiful you have beautiful children who are healthy and doing great you have a great marriage you are very fortunate financially you have a lot of opportunity and options and prosperity. You have so much to be grateful for turning 40 and you have so much to look at and be proud of and, you know, there should be no reason to be upset turning 40. And then I got it out of her that there was a little piece missing. But, for the most part, I look at my life and I’m like— I have everything and more than I could have hoped for and yes, I am happy.

4. Um, mostly. Like I’m an optimistic person and my gestalt is happy but not universally happy, you know? Not every minute. Not about every thing. Like, I read the newspaper and I want to dive under the deck and I feel super unhappy but I’m happy right now talking to you.

5. Yeah. Yeah I’m really happy. I think I feel really lucky I found a really good balance between working and being with my kids and I don’t know what the future holds. Maybe someday I’ll have scaled down at work or maybe I’ll take a break or whatever, but right now I really like my job; I like what I do and it really allows me the flexibility to still do drop off if I want to sometimes or pick up when I want to or be home during the day if I want to or get coffee on a Tuesday morning. So I really love that most of the time I feel like I have this good balance going. I feel like the kids really do feel my presence, like, I don’t think that they think I’m absent during the week at all. So yeah. I wouldn’t change anything. I’m really happy with where we are and I really like my husband and our relationship.

6. Of course. Absolutely. I am so lucky. It’s really, to me, a matter of gratitude. I am beyond— in my wildest dreams I could never have imagined that I would have this life. And I have a very regular— like I’m in sales— I have a very regular job. My husband has, you know, in our circles he’s like a big deal, but we both have regular jobs. We live in this nice town but it’s not like, you know, we’re not like changing the world. Maybe my husband is changing the world a little but we’re very regular people and I feel like we’re comfortable. We don’t have to worry about feeding our kids; our biggest problem is where are we going to send them to summer camp. I am the luckiest person in the world. I have no complaints about any of this. I am very, very lucky and I think as long as I keep seeing it that way I’ll be happy. I think once I start thinking about: well, I wish I had this, I wish I had that then maybe I won’t be happy. But I’ve been completely blessed.

7. Yeah. I’m happy and I’ll say I’m also always feeling that I’m so far from perfect and so far from being where I’d like to be or what I think I ought to be doing. So I probably view myself as a failure every day. But a happy one. A happy one in the sense: I know I’m doing my best— I’m reassessing all the time and I know I’m trying to do what I think is important and what’s important is redefining all the time. But yeah, I’m definitely happy. I don’t have any regrets as such. Always things I feel like I can do better.

8. I would say yes, especially now I find my passion I’m happier. Because at the beginning of the year or last year I wasn’t sure because I think we’re moving but I couldn’t figure out what I can do there so I have my doubt. But now I figure out what can keep me busy. Also independence sort of from my husband because I never really wanted to rely on him. So I have my independence; I’m happy. And the kids will be with the Dad so we’re happy. Maybe we have a moment later on in life so come back to me in 6 months.

9. Yes.

10. I am. I mean, I want another child. So I don’t know if it’s the difference between happy and content, you know, I would say that I’m happy but I’m not content. I do want that other child to round things out. I want my son to have another child to play with and to do all the things that kids do with their brothers and sisters and I just want him to have another reference point besides his parents and his nanny. I want him to interact with children more too and that’s why we try to schedule a lot of playdates. But when you are a mom of a single child you are spending a lot of time playing and you do want to see that shift over to time that he’s spending with other children to play. So I do want to have that.

But I would say that I’m happy in a way that I always wanted to be and I never knew— it was never a guarantee to me that it was going to happen. When I was a little girl, my father and mother of course always talked to me about, you know, you’re going to be married and have kids and this and that and it was always this distant dream. In my twenties and thirties I was working in the city and I had broken an engagement when I was in my late twenties and I had some bad experiences with guys and there was a couple of let downs that had happened. Actually two engagements broken that were smart to break. But I felt time ticking and I was worried that I was going to run out of time. So for me it was the biggest joy finding out that I was pregnant and I actually didn’t know until I was four and a half months, fully. But it did, it filled my whole body. I felt so much happiness coursing through my body the moment that I found out. It gave me the chills and I was like yes. The universe just said yes to me to this one thing that I’ve wanted my entire life. And it was the happiest, happiest moment. Beyond getting married, beyond any of that. That moment when I found out pregnancy it was like a giant yes. The universe was cooperating in a way that I wanted and it was so satisfying and so I want another one. I’m happy but not content.

And also, beyond wanting another child there’s obviously other things I want too. We want to get a dog and we have a couple other things on our list that we need to get or that I think that would be good for all of us. I think pets are good for kids too.

11. Oh yes. I’m very happy.​

12. Daughter: Yes. I happen to be going through a lot of changes. I also left my job. We’re also moving. So I’m feeling a little bit overwhelmed right now by everything that needs to happen with the baby but I wouldn’t change anything. I still laugh a lot and smile a lot and he’s the main reason why. I’m scared of him but, you know, fear is a kind of happiness too, right?

Mom: You know, my motherhood now is really mostly gone. Except for supervising. I’m happy with my husband. I’m getting old so I have to face all these hard things and health things but on the whole in my life, I mean, I want to get rid of this house. But I’m happy with the most important things in my life. I’m happy, yeah.​

13. It’s interesting you’re asking that. Unrelated to this 2019 has been a hard year for me and I feel like I was really pretty unhappy between 2 and 4 or 5 it was a pretty tough time. My brother was like, “are you sure this is the right time to do this with everything going on?” Most of the unhappiness was sourced from work stuff. And I was like, “you know, I actually think maybe because of that it’s the best time.” I feel like number 1— I didn’t want this work drama going on to compromise anything else. It had already taken so much sacrifice and had depleted me in so many ways that I was like I’m not willing to let it compromise this other thing I’ve really wanted to do. I also feel like it forces me to have perspective. It forces me to have something else in my life that reminds me of what actually is important. And so I think I would say I am happy and there is no one thing that can cause that to be happy or not but I think that this experience has actually helped that for the most part.

When I’m having the worst day at work or, you know, feel like my whole company is falling apart, my son doesn’t give a shit about that. He doesn’t know anything about any of that. And there’s something really freeing about that. It’s like oh right this is like all in here. All of this unhappiness—

14. Yeah, I would say so. I feel like ultimately I always thought of myself as hoping to be a stay-at-home parent and that wasn’t in the cards for us, which is fine. I do feel like I have a fairly well-rounded life. I think I have the best of both worlds being a teacher and being off in the summertime, like, I kind of get to do that a little bit but at the same time I have a job. I do think mentally I think it’s a nice thing for me to have work sometimes although I said this year was really challenging and that did, I think, affect my family just in the sense that I think I said I didn’t have as much patience; I was more tired, that kind of thing. But I think overall, you know, I have a well-balanced life. I have a partner that really shares a lot of the work with me. He’s a good dad so I think our relationship is good. Like I said, I wish we had a little more time to ourselves but I think that’s just part of the nature of this stage of the game with little kids. Overall I would say I am.

15. Yes I am. I feel like I have— and this is something I’m so grateful for— again I don’t take credit for this because I feel like it was something I was somehow imbued with at birth— I feel very fulfilled almost always. And I think I would feel that way if I lived under a bridge. I have a very— and I do feel like this is a gift because I do know so many people who feel tortured on a daily basis and I hope that’s never me— I am really grateful because for the most part I feel really good. Even when things, situations, and they’re have been plenty of those where I’m like— that sucks— growing up, through marriage, through whatever. There are difficult things all the time. For whatever reason, and again I don’t know what I did to deserve it, for the most part I’m like: everything is going to be fine. It’s all good. So yes. And probably therapy helps.

16. Yes, I am.

17. Yeah. I mean yes. I don’t— yeah. I’m definitely happy. Sometimes I think could I be happier? But then I wouldn’t know what to tell you. I mean could I be happier if I traveled to Europe more this year? Like— yes.

18. Yes. It depends on when you ask me. Yeah, no, I’m pretty happy. It always feels like just when I’m comfortable and happy that some big change happens. But that’s just life. But right now I feel pretty content, yeah.​

19. I’m happy with my children. I’m not where I want to be in life so I don’t think I’m happy with myself. But I’m happy with my family. You know? I am very happy in that way and grateful because I know where I come from. So I have definitely ascended from where I come from but I’m not quite where I want to be. So you know I have mixed feelings on that.

20. I have never been happier in my life.

21. Yes. Yeah. I feel like— you know I used to always write my goals. I still do. I feel like I’m living inside them now, which is really cool. And it’s also sort of unnerving because I’m like— now what? But yeah. I’m like wildly happy. Couldn’t be happier.

22. Yes. I’m happy with my life. I’m very satisfied with my life. Of course there’s days that I’m angry. Of course there’s days that I’m sad. But by and large I’m happy. I don’t wish I was somebody else. I don’t wish I had something I didn’t have— not just material, just anything.

23. Completamente.

24. Mhm. Yeah. I am. I think before I sort of struggled to find a career that really suited me. I didn’t love always what I was doing or I’d love what I was doing but I always struggled with the bureaucracy and the things you’d have to do in order to get ahead and you’d have to think about yourself a lot. Not that I don’t think about myself but I was always on a team and that really worked for me, like playing sports and that feel of being on a team and working hard towards a common goal with other people. And jobs just aren’t like that because even when they are it’s your life so you have to get ahead and sometimes you have to step on other people and I see why good people do that and it didn’t work for me. So I always thought I’d find a great career and be a part-time stay-at-home mom or like, find a way to work some flexibility in so I could do the things but I always wanted to stay home for at least 6 months and for whatever reason I had that in my head, like, 3 months I could just see it. Even before I knew anything about it, it just seemed like not enough. So I did and I was going to go back to work and look for another job. I was like, I don’t want to do this. Even the jobs that I was looking for that felt right I’d go on an interview and be like— it wasn’t there. I didn’t have the drive or the passion or the enthusiasm that I would have had a year prior. So once I really settled in to accepting being a stay-at-home mom and what that meant and stepped back outside of what I thought I wanted if I looked at my day-to-day I was— I am and was really happy. The things that made me unhappy weren’t being a stay-at-home mom, they were more like the transitional things. Moving was really hard. Just the adjustment of identity. And once I recognized that I realized, well, I’m really happy so why am I not feeling really happy? Because I really like what’s happening so I had to marry my life to whatever mental image I thought had or hadn’t been there. Whatever plan. And again that goes back to me recognizing that I need to just relax and recognize that. But I am. I am really happy. I don’t know what life I pictured, though I guess, theoretically, I grew up 15 minutes away: this is not all that different than what I would have pictured. But I mean I couldn’t ask for anything better. I feel really lucky. We have two healthy kids, we have this really great house, we have all these nice neighbors. We’re safe. That doesn’t mean that person is happy. But I am actually. And I think that’s why I can be kind of relaxed about things or feel good about it. Because everything thus far has worked out so nicely that, I don’t know, I’m sure it’ll work out again, whatever it is.

25. Yeah I’d say ultimately I am. It’s hard. I feel like, again, this is just stock answer but it’s easy to just slip into envy when you see social media stuff: oh this is what their life is like and maybe what you want— certain wants versus needs— but I think yeah. I’m happy. I am. And maybe this is unhealthy but I’m a happier person with my kids than I was without them. Certainly. My first child definitely opened up something in me that probably wasn’t there before. This is going to sound so silly but I tell this story like how funny it is how, much we take for granted. The first time she was on her play mat and she heard a noise and looked towards it and developmentally she was at a spot where she knew to look towards a noise and obviously her hearing had been tested, she could hear, but she didn’t know enough to look towards a noise and it was amazing and I was like: she is a genius; this is incredible. And then I realized how much B.S. we don’t even consider or think about. And seeing her experience things makes me so happy and makes me so happy to be alive and to be with my husband and to have these kids. I’m grateful for all of that. So I’d say yeah I’m happy. Ultimately.

26. Yes.

27. Yes. I feel very, very happy. Very, very lucky. I cannot tell you how lucky I feel. I have the best family in the world and the best daughter in law, the most accomplished. I don’t know how. The best mother for my grandchildren that could ever be. So yes I feel very, very lucky.

Coming up: Mom Talk – Part 11: What is the most impressive thing you have ever done?

Mom Talk – Part 8

Question: What is the range of emotions you feel on a typical day?

If there were a manual given to every woman everywhere in the world upon the birth of her first child I believe it would begin: Welcome to motherhood. You will be tired for the rest of your life. First and foremost and above all else I feel exhaustion. I can drink a pot of regular coffee in the afternoon and fall asleep on a rock at 8. My brain is tired. My body is tired. My heart is tired. I don’t know if it’s an emotion exactly but exhaustion is the underlying condition that impacts all other feelings. Here are some synonyms for tired: exhausted, weary, annoyed, bored, distressed, drained, exasperated, fatigued, irritated, overworked, sleepy, stale, beat, consumed, haggard. Yes. That’s it. That’s motherhood.

[I feel like you can tell I wrote all this before social isolation because the next feeling I talk about is rushed. These days I definitely don’t feel rushed and I will admit it is one of the blessings of our current situation that we aren’t constantly rushing everywhere all the time. I fully expect that when the world reopens the new normal will still involve rushing.]

I feel rushed— I feel like I did not fully understand— and sometimes it still surprises me— the time it takes kids to do things. And there are so many things. Daily grind kind of things, after-school activity kind of things, obligation kind of things. We are constantly going somewhere and doing something and even when we have an afternoon free I find myself rushing to relax. Come on! Let’s relax!

I feel: guilty when I take time for myself; amazed at how real my children are; relief at how lucky I am; frustrated when I feel like no one listens and everyone is screaming to be heard. I feel it all. I don’t think there’s a single feeling I don’t feel.

It’s strange to feel happy and sad and love and hate and peace and anxiety and amusement and annoyance all potentially within the same hour, but that is the motherhood experience. It’s constantly feeling. There’s never a moment when your amygdala is simply disabled. You might feel feelings consecutively and you might feel them concurrently and it’s all normal. If you feel sad and happy at the same time that’s normal. If you feel rage and pride at the same time that’s normal. If you feel frustrated and relieved at the same time that’s normal. It’s all normal. You’re not alone.

The answers:

1. Love, frustration, rage—that’s it.

2. One of my goals as a mother is whenever I wake my daughter up in the morning or she wakes me is to be happy and to start that day off right. That’s something I try to do. I’m fairly consistent with it. I just start it off happy and then move into rushed and then I’m in the Batman phase and I’m using my Batman voice and I’m late, I’m late, we’re late, we’re late, hurry up. But overall it’s pretty consistent. I wish I were more present at times but— being an entrepreneur— that’s been hard. That’s been a challenge and I’m constantly working on that but overall it’s just a pretty happy existence. Tired, but happy.​

3. I mean, what’s sad is like tired always is the first word that always comes to mind. I feel like I’m always tired. There’s never a moment that I just don’t want to lie down at some point. My husband’s like, “take a nap!” I’m like oh my God between work and the kids— no, I’m not taking a nap. I have to be honest: my days are very even. I’ve got a pretty well-oiled machine going on. My days are very even; my emotions are very even and everything is very, very nice and streamlined at this stage so I don’t think I have a range of emotions during the day. And you probably see that in me too. I’ve got a well-oiled system. I’m not saying I have it all together but I’ve got a system. Between the au pair, the fact that my marriage is really strong, the kids have a lot of structure at home, everyone is kind of on track, I’ve got the business. Everything is kind of where it needs to be. That’s the zone I’d like to stay in. I like that zone.

4. I feel: my son is hilarious so I feel laughy. I am so enchanted with his quiet but subtle and his clever personality. I feel anxiety about his future because he’s still— in production. And he’s got his IEP and his learning schtick and he’s really smart and he’s really smart— and with support he’s doing it but— what’s going to be? And for my daughter I feel: I’m so interested and proud and I watch her do amazing, amazing things. And she— her process is to take her anxieties and whatever’s gone wrong, dump them on me and then move on. So that’s part of the role I can provide to her and, you know, it’s part of her support mechanism. So I feel churn when she does that and I have to talk myself down: she’s gonna be fine, this is fine, she’s just dumped on you, you’ve seen this, you don’t have to carry this monkey, she’s taken it off of her and said, “here— would you hold this for me?” And I can pretend to say yes and not really do it. So that happens a lot, like, “I’m going to fail this test tomorrow.” Alright that’s never happened before but alright let’s go with that. And I feel a lot like I’m handling that wrong, like, she’s not looking for me to problem-solve. I know intellectually she’s looking for me to carry her monkey but I feel like I am Action Jackson and I want— I want to be strategic and I don’t want to just do things for the sake of doing things, but I am uncomfortable seeing something that needs to be done and not doing it. Like, I want to touch things once, I want to get a lot done. My life is like a Tetris game so if I have five minutes and there’s something I can do in five minutes I’m gonna pull it off the list and get that thing done. Same thing happened with my daughter: shampoo exploded— you want me to order new shampoo and send it to you? She can order the shampoo just fine, but even the emotional stuff like I’m trying to problem-solve. I’m trying to train myself not to offer solutions to her ’cause it’s not what she wants from me; it’s not what she needs. I have to get past this is not about me. It’s not helpful. It sends the wrong message. It sends like: I don’t think you can do this. I know she can do it. I, for a fact, know she can do it. She’s done big things. Giving them the opportunity to make mistakes. I should have said: I’m sure you’ll handle it. Let me know if there’s anything you need. She’s got her phone there’s nothing she couldn’t do.

5. I would say probably everything along the spectrum, every day. Lows feeling I’m not being a good mom when I’m going to work and then my daughter asks me to take her to school and I can’t because I’m going to work, and then highs when I get home from work and they’re running around and so excited to see me and having dinner, and then lows again because they didn’t finish their dinner and didn’t eat any of their vegetables, and then high again when they’re playing in the bath. I would say everything, all over.

6. Is tired an emotion? I would say the majority of my emotions are like— is it anxiety? It’s like I always have the next challenge to overcome. Like the week ahead of me. It’s like I can’t wait for this to be completed. I feel like I live my life in constant, like, okay when’s the next point when I can breathe because I feel very overwhelmed a lot. I don’t know. But then once I’m done breathing that quickly dissipates and then I’m overwhelmed again.

And maybe it’s just the time. We just moved and now our house is just sitting there abandoned basically. And our realtor keeps calling like when are you going to be ready to put it on the market? And we’re like we have stuff to do there’s just all these things. I’m always in the we have all these things to do mindset and not just me— it’s my husband too. I feel like he takes very good ownership of things as well. But I just always feel overwhelmed. I was talking to a coworker two days ago and I was like, “I need everybody else to take a vacation. I just want to be left alone.” He’s like, “you need a me-cation” and I was like, “no, I need an else-cation.” I need everybody else to just stop and go away. Like: world please stop for a minute so I can, like, have a coffee or watch Dead to Me. Binge it.

7. You know it’s funny because when we lived in London I used to say to my husband “our neighbors will never be our friends because they probably hear the screaming—” that morning routine screaming between, like, 7 and 8 AM and I’m like, “we’re getting judged— hard— nobody wants to be friends with us.” The mornings are probably, unfortunately, the worst time of day for us. It’s a mad rush. Everybody is trying to get out the door. We’re trying to get to work. And if things go wrong in the morning, unfortunately it just kind of sets the tone for the day. And if things are lovely and they’re really cooperative in the morning and we’ve had a nice start that kind of sets the tone. And we went through a period where, when we came back in the evenings, we were walking in at 6 and we had an hour to get everything in order before they go to bed so you’re in a mad rush. And similarly on the weekends we were finding ourselves in this, again, this rush because what we were doing is booking in all these activities on weekends ’cause— again— mom guilt. So I’m like I can’t do it on the weekdays so I’ll just pack it in on the weekends. And then I realized this is not what I visualized; this is not what I thought being a mother was going to be like or how I wanted it to be. I don’t want my relationship with them to be like I’m this time keeper basically, you know, constantly shuttling them around to the next thing.

And so we have revisited and we’ve cleared our schedule. So Saturdays are just about family time. We’re just doing nothing. Just relax. No rush. No schedule. And those days are probably the best days ’cause we’ll just be playing board games or we’ll cook together and it maybe means that my kids won’t be chess champions or whatever but actually I genuinely believe that if we go on in that way of constantly being in a rush they’re not going to want to be at home. They’re gonna be teenagers that are like: actually this is crazy and this is not fun and I’m just gonna go. So that’s definitely something we’re trying to work on— just really hone it back in and make it about family time.

I think it’s really easy to get pulled in so many directions and I think that’s what contributes to the roller coaster of emotions. I think if you pulled that out and just focused on spending time— that’s lovely and that’s beautiful and they’re gonna bicker but you can work through that if you’re not in a rush. Being in a rush is what makes it all dangerous. It makes it all so negative. And then you think: what’s that for? And is it really worth it? Probably not. So just like bringing it back to basics and simplifying back to more of what our parents did. And we shouldn’t underestimate that I don’t think. We shouldn’t underestimate how valuable that is to just have that down time, have that quality time and not always be trying to— I feel like we’re trying to fit this mold— become these ideal mothers that do everything and are president of the PTA and volunteering here and doing all this stuff at school but also doing all these amazing things as mothers and as women; and you’re just like we need to cut ourselves a break and be realistic about how much we can actually do without turning into a monster or into that screaming neighbor that I have been for so long.

8. Typical day, so. Morning is always get going, get going, get going! And if they’re behind or cranky you’re just like, “please we can’t be late!” Then you have a moment of quiet once they are out of the house. But then as the clock ticking by 3: oh my God they’re coming back. You do miss them during the day but as soon as they come back within the hour you’re like: uh I miss my quiet moment and they just have to drag through the night until they go to bed. The hardest time is when you’re cooking and they’re playing and they want your attention while you need to do the work or you need to cook. That’s the hard moment. Weekend is always hard because weekdays is always like a vacation to me. Yes, I have au pair to help me, but weekend they want me even if I have her they just want me. So if we have a monitor then we have a peak in the morning, a peak after they come back through dinner time, bed time, then moments of quiet again.

Since I’m been kind of busy and also I work with the Chinese team so there’s 12 hour difference so I usually work through midnight. And I like it because finally they’re in bed I can focus on your job.

The big thing for mother— you always function. You’re sick— you’re still functioning until they go to bed. You don’t have a sick day.

9. Tired. Love. Happiness. Anxiety. Grateful. And complete. That feeling of completeness. All of that.

10. A big range. There’s always a big range. Because I’m an older mother there probably isn’t a single day that I don’t wake up thinking this is the last day that he’s going to, you know, do this. I think about: he’s not going to need his swim diapers anymore; he’s moving now to the toddler stage. I’m very aware of time passing. I’ll get a little bit sad; I’ll get a little bit— oh my gosh he’s growing up; he’s losing a little bit of the baby fat in his cheeks and then at the same time, proud. I see he’s progressing in certain respects in terms of his art or in terms of the way he’s expressing himself and so I’ll feel that. And then I’ll feel joy because he makes me laugh, if my son says something funny to me and it’s pretty clever. He’s rhyming now so he’ll make a little poem and it’ll crack me up. I’ll feel a big range of emotions.

The other thing too, for us, we’re a little bit in a sandwich generation because my mother has Alzheimer’s. So I also feel conscious of time passing for her. I try to make the most of weekends, especially with my son and her. I’ll Facetime her and I’ll put him on there so that I make sure she gets her time with him. Because I don’t want to have any regrets when it comes to her, and especially with her and my son, so I want her to experience him as much as she can while she still remembers him and I want to keep him fresh in her memory for as long as possible. That’s a big thing. So yeah, we go through big emotions in every day. It’s definitely a lot.

And sometimes there’s frustration too. Obviously there’s a kid misbehaving; we have our moments or we’re feeling challenged and we don’t know how to get him to do something that we want him to do. There’s a negative side of it too. There’s definitely a whole range of feelings and some of those feelings are very big feelings.

11. Happiness to sadness to love. Fear. Of course it depends on a day-to-day basis. But I think they challenge us enough to feel the whole range of emotions in one single day.

12. Daughter: I can’t do this slash I’m doing this! I don’t know, what do you think?

Mom: Well for me it’s even now. Even keel. But I think when I see you I think that it’s amazing what you’re doing. How you maintain writing a book and working for the Los Angeles Review of Books and still being a mother. I think you maybe expected it was going to be—

Daughter: I kind of thought it was going to be easier. It all sounds really stupid now. I thought I’d just put him in a chair. Or strap him in and just do my day. Like the Good Earth, like the lady in the field I would just keep working the field with the baby strapped to my back except that the work I do wouldn’t be in a rice paddy but on a computer. And that people would be like, “oh my God you’re a mom?!” and I’d be like, “yeah I’m having this conference call while I breastfeed, whatever!” Instead of— because if I ever tried to take a call it would be like, “Ow! Good God he’s screaming I’ll call you back.”

We bought, like, an expensive Scandinavian bouncer because I read that this is so good and it doesn’t have a toy and I was like, he won’t need a toy, he’ll have his imagination. Then we bought a $19 one on Amazon. One where it’s like: spin, elephant! Spin! Beep Bope Bop. Do this. Do this for five minutes.

Mom: Amazon. Didn’t have to go to Denmark.

13. Desire to choke slam to frustration to fulfillment and reward to this is the most meaningful thing I have ever done.

14. That’s a loaded question! You want me to list them? That’s a good question. I have to think about it. I think in the morning I’ve never had an issue getting up. Well I shouldn’t say that. I’m definitely tired some mornings, don’t get me wrong. When the alarm goes off I get out of bed. I need to be productive and efficient and all that, all those good things in the morning. I think there’s a lot of: okay I have to get this done, I have to get this done. I think efficiency is an important word although that’s not an emotion. I guess worrying about the day to day stuff— getting everything done. Getting lunch boxes packed and backpacks ready with everything they need to do and I think a lot of that falls on Mom. My husband is very, very hands-on and I know I’m lucky in a lot of ways. There’s just a lot of dads who aren’t anywhere near as hands on as he is, but trying to always get things done— I feel like I’m always worried about doing that.

I like the time to myself in the car in the morning. On the way to work I really don’t mind that time because it’s a half an hour of quiet time kind of. I like to listen to music and kind of get myself psyched up for the day. And then during the day I think I’m so busy that it goes— it goes fairly quickly. And then when school’s over you’re thinking about all the things you have to do like after-school activities or things you have to do to get ready for dinner and then it’s like getting ready for the next day: laying out clothes and all that kind of stuff. So usually by the end of the day I’m completely exhausted. But I look forward to seeing my kids in the afternoon. I think that one of the perks of being a teacher is that I do kind of get the best of both worlds in a sense that I am able to spend a lot more time with my kids than your average full-time working parent who’s got a City job or whatever. But I do look forward to coming home to them at the end of the day and hearing about their day. That’s an exciting part of the day for me. But it is an exhausting day, for sure. And then trying to worry about feeding everybody and shower time and all that stuff. So I hope that answered the question.

15. From tired to tired. That’s pretty much it. In terms of one of the things I’ve learned about motherhood: that self-care, getting enough sleep, exercising— which was never one of my things. I’m really bad about that and very up and down. But I just recently discovered Pilates and it’s lovely. I think even you might really like it. It’s the reformer and it’s a good workout but it’s lovely and they’re not emotional terrorists and it’s just nice. They’re really nice. It’s just very manageable and I just love it. I look forward to it, I enjoy it when I’m there and I feel good when I leave. So I’ve tried to make that a priority to go 3 times a week. It feels so good; it feels good to my body. I don’t feel creaky.

Anyway, in terms of the one thing that I feel often is tired. It’s not that I’m not getting enough sleep. At the end of the day, and this is actually a little difficult for me because my natural circadian rhythm is from— without children? Well this is one of the things that I miss—

I do my best work at night. I love working at 3 o’clock in the morning. That’s when my creative juices are flowing. Left to my own devices and without kids I would sleep from like 3 to 11 AM. That would be my sleep time, which obviously is not viable with children. I have these ideas and I’m like, oh I’m gonna work on that after I put the kids to bed and then it’s like 9:30 and I’m dead to the world. But I can’t go to sleep yet. My body will not— I can get in bed, I can be so tired— but I will not be able to go to sleep until midnight or something. So I miss the ability to do that because I think I did good work that way— better work— but I think the fatigue— okay I’ll answer the real question.

I really do feel— and this was a surprise to me about being a parent because I really didn’t think I was going to be the really— you know you’re going to love your kids and it’s going to change your life for the better and whatever but I didn’t think I was going to be this person who loved motherhood so much. I love the moments of discovery or interesting conversations with them or singing them a song and seeing it comfort them. That stuff is so awesome to me. So that’s pure deep heart joy that I don’t know if I would have anticipated was my style.

Frustration? I really don’t get angry. My older son can be defiant— just so ridiculous sometimes. Or my younger son even who was the best baby ever but now is very willful. I don’t get mad, I’m just like, “come on, man, can we just go? Can you just get it together?” I say that to them I’m like, “I don’t have time for this” and sometimes it’s effective and they’re like okay she’s not buying it. I don’t get— the way the pediatricians say, “you can’t engage you can’t get riled up because they’ll prefer positive attention over negative but negative attention over no attention” that’s great for me because I have like one tempo and it’s pretty chill. I don’t get riled up. I’m like, “okay we’re going to need to go to your room now and we’re going to be late but no skin off my back.” But it’s more just like, come on, can you just be an adult? And the answer is no; the answer is no, not yet. So, frustration I guess.

For the most part I don’t feel like— and it’s partially because I work and I have a nanny— I’m not with them all the time. I would not be good at that. Being a full-time mom takes a very specific skill set that I do not have. I think it’s like any other job: there are certain things that I won’t be good at. I think I’m a really good mom, I really do. I pat myself on the back; I think I’m a good mom, great mom. I love the way I parent in so many ways but I would not be a good full-time mom. But I think for the most part I have generally positive feelings about motherhood and it’s probably partially because I can spend part of the day at a computer interacting with adults.

I think one of the hardest things about motherhood especially if you’re a stay-at-home mom is that it’s so constant. Any other job that’s constant— and I’m not sure if any other job is as constant— because it’s also the stakes are different. It’s not that they’re higher; they’re different. When I was in banking I was attached to my phone at all times. If someone sent me an email at 3 o’clock in the morning that was urgent it was my responsibility to respond. Which is crazy. Clearly I’m asleep. But I had two phones: one was for work and one was my personal phone. And if I got up to go to the bathroom and I saw an email from my manager and saw that she needed a Powerpoint presentation for 9 AM I would go up to my computer and create it. It was constant. But it’s different. First of all I didn’t have kids at the time and second of all, even when a role like that is constant it’s so frustrating to not be able to get away from it. So I think it’s true of anything that feels constant. And that is also I think they’re different. Because your detachment like “I fucking hate my boss” instead of like “oh this is my life forever.”

16. Oh my God everything? That’s why I think when you said— what was the first question— what word describes motherhood— insanity? It goes from loving insanely to being insanely angry. You go from happy to frustrated to annoyed or sentimental. It’s everything. There’s a meme that’s like a woman always has like 27,000 tabs open; we’re like a running computer, right? That’s what it is because we’re doing so many different things. That we feel so many different things. It’s because we’re so busy, you know?

17. Like, “oh my God I love you so so much” to like frustration and anger to guilt for feeling that way. Like generally I generally feel content with them. I get angry; they fight a lot at this stage. And of course then I have guilt. I always have guilt: am I spending more time with one than the other? Am I doing this or that? That’s a great question and probably the toughest one. I don’t know. It’s just— I go through a bunch where I’m like super happy, I love my family and everything’s great to then they do one thing that makes me go through the roof and then I really guilty that that happened. Then I feel really guilty that I want to spend time away from them. I feel like I’m not soaking it in. I feel like I should be more appreciative. Like, my younger son, all he wants to do is talk. We’re on a car ride and he’s talking the whole time. I want, like, two minutes of silence. Sometimes I think I’m parenting for the future which is not a good idea. I know there’s going to be a time where he doesn’t want to talk to me; he’s literally going to say nothing to me in this car and I’m going to be wishing that he would have a conversation with me but that doesn’t really help me right now. Like, I know it’s coming; I know that he’s going to be 10, 11, 12, 13 and he’s going to be like, “hey, Mom, fine, yeah” and I’m going to be like “no! Tell me about your day! About everything that happened! Ask me questions!” And he’s not. But I feel like I can’t appreciate it as much now as I should. So that’s guilt.

Like when they say: you only have 350 Saturdays until your kids are 18. I get like anxiety when I read that because sometimes we don’t live our Saturdays to the fullest. Sometimes we’re just sitting around for half the day and I haven’t gone to, like, the farm with my kids and whatever. I’m just like let’s go play in the backyard for a little bit. You read those Summer lists of like things you should be doing with your kids: 25 things to do with your kids in the Summer. I’m like I think I’ve done maybe, like, 4 of them by the end of the Summer.

18. Um, well let’s see. Now that my daughter is 6 it has changed a little because obviously the emotional lability of a 2 year old is so intense that I think as a mom you kind of just have to be sarcastic and laugh at their tantrums because they are so ridiculous. But then as your kid grows, and their conflicts with peers, and feeling left out in social circumstances and stuff become a real feeling that you can empathize with or maybe you have yourself, that becomes part of your, like, general thought process. I’ve tried to stay calm in that. And I get really obnoxious around 7:30 when bedtime starts to approach because there’s usually a point in the day when I’ve just had enough and my fuse is short. I’ve actually started telling my daughter like, you know how you get irritated when you’re over-tired, Mommy is over-tired. Just so that it’s like a little warning like I might yell at you. You’ve caught me during summer camp so these last 2 days have been very relaxing; I have a lot of free time.

Bedtime is also when they come out with all sorts of things and it’s like now you’re telling me this? And sometimes it’s like, to stall bedtime, but sometimes it’s real emotional stuff. Like the doorknob questions to your therapist. And it’s hard when routines shift for everybody. I do 90% of bedtimes by myself because my husband gets home at 9 o’clock or later most nights so we’re just kind of in our routine and yes I’m irritable but I just know how things need to work. So when he does randomly get home early and happens to be there: I feel guilty because Iam simultaneously so happy that she’s going to get to see him because sometimes it can be days during the week when she doesn’t, and I’m also irritated because bedtime is totally messed with. And the routine is off and she’s going to bed late and she’s cranky the next day. It’s hard.​

19. Probably from exhaustion to frustration and then, you know, when I’m with my kids just pure joy. Even when they’re getting on my nerves sometimes I just look at them and I’m grateful. I think that I go through extremes almost every day. It starts with exhaustion and it ends with exhaustion and everything else runs between.

20. I am in such a good place right now that most days I feel happy, fulfilled and full of love. However, I am also a worrier by nature— I think it’s in my genes— so there are definitely times where I am also feeling worried, stressed and anxious.

21. I feel mostly pretty happy. I mean that’s me anyway, like I ride pretty high? But tired. Occasionally it’s like the tired that’s like— I feel like I can say this because I have been hit by car— where it’s like UGH I just feel dead; how am I going to get through this next hour? And yeah. I thought I would be, like, annoyed at him but it’s not. It’s interesting. It’s like extreme love and elation and like extreme tiredness where I could just nap for days. And sometimes, I’ve had in the past few weeks a little bit of that, like, anger towards my husband but not really because it’s not his fault; but I’m just like oh it must be nice to be able to go to work— to be able to separate and not worry for a second.

22. I think I’m pretty steady. I don’t think I’m particularly exuberant and I don’t think I’m particularly depressed. I’m very happy. I feel happy.

23. De la tranquilidad a la incertidombre.

24. I feel so many. I think I cry so much more easily about things I wouldn’t have cried about before. But a lot of times like happy tears but just generally emotional. I often feel really proud of my kids and all the things they’re doing. I get frustrated. That’s probably a top word— just general frustration. I have a lot more anxiety every day. I worry a lot more. I think that’s it. I mean overall I would say I’m really happier but in terms of— but there’s so many highs and lows.

25. Being on leave I would say definitely— right now it’s tough too because I’m still postpartum— I would say guilt is like an overwhelming one: just trying to make sure that my older daugther knows that I don’t love her any less. My husband does the drop off at school during the day in the mornings and there are times I’m still in bed because I’ve done like a 3 AM feeding or I’m currently feeding the baby and it just feels— I don’t want her to feel like the goodbye in the morning is any less— or I don’t want her to feel like I’m trying to push her out of the house or I don’t want her to feel dismissed in any way. And then I would say guilt, a little bit of loneliness now that my husband is back at work. I almost don’t like hearing how his day is because he gets to tell me all the people he spoke with, like all the things that he did, and he’s like what did you do today? This. This is what I did today. I tried to get to the grocery store but she was screaming so much I knew I wouldn’t be able to go shopping and, I, yeah brushed my teeth at 11 and I’m going to take a shower at 10 o’clock tonight hopefully when she’s sleeping. So a little bit of lonely. But then also. Yeah it’s just crazy because I’m so happy when my daughter gets home. I do feel like it’s a little bit of a roller-coaster right now. Like I’m happy for 5 minutes and then she starts behaving like a 2 and a half year old and I’m like go back to school. I was great, you were being so good for 10 minutes and now I want to kill all of us. I want to burn this house down. Yeah it’s a rainbow of emotions. But yeah I’d say overwhelming is like guilt but also I’m grateful. Just crazy, apparently. Just crazy.

When my mom is like, “is the baby sleeping better?” I’m like she’s an infant: she’s the dictator of the house I don’t know— no she’s not sleeping— she went 4 hours last night instead of 2 and a half. Great. I’m not putting any money on that. We’re all sleeping like shit. I want to murder everyone. Stop calling me. “Well you have to get her on a schedule.” Kill yourself. Okay, she’s seven weeks old she doesn’t have a schedule.

26. Let’s see. I think I go anywhere from like at my wit’s end to I don’t know how to describe it. Just like – to like literally heart bursting with love. Which I don’t actually think are opposites.

​27. Thinking back: a huge shift in emotions. Up and down and up and down and sideways. You know from extreme happiness to extreme concern and worry and feeling inadequate and feeling concern. Huge concern. Not knowing how to calm a baby down or a son down. Huge concern. I guess I haven’t changed all that much. Another thing is your hormones are going crazy because after you give birth your hormones are all mixed up and that really does complicate things and so on.

That’s it for today.

Coming up: What is the most rewarding thing about being a mother?

Mom Talk – Part 4

Need something to listen to while you wait up until midnight trying to get a Fresh Direct delivery time? I present to you – Mom Talk – Part 4:

Oh, you’d rather half-read while you half-keep-an-eye-on-the-kids? See below:

Question: What has come naturally to you as a mother?

One thing that really came naturally to me was loving my children and caring for them as infants. I am so into the newborn phase. They don’t scare me the way they do other people. I love to hold them, I love to be with them, I love to nurse them and sing to them. Yes, it’s exhausting. I mean, it is so horribly, brain-meltingly exhausting. But I honestly don’t care. I would have a dozen more.*

Another thing that came naturally to me and still does is treating my kids like people. I have always talked to them a lot: narrating the day when they were infants (“now look what I have I have a diaper isn’t this diaper so teeny and cute just like you you’re very teeny and cute and I’m going to put this diaper on your tiny little tush but we can’t forget the diaper cream here comes the diaper cream! I hope it works! This rash looks very bad oh yes it does very yucky. Okay! We did the cream and we did the diaper and now it’s time for your shorts! Look what you’re wearing today – whales!” etc) and cooing and all the baby-appropriate stuff when they were babies (“oooh look at you you’re so clever! You knew I had that toy behind my back you’re just the most smooshygooshyitsybitsymostadorablecleverestbabyintheworld!) Now that they are getting to the school phase I talk to them all the time about things and stuff. They ask questions and I try my best to give them answers. I try to keep things age-appropriate but I don’t assume they don’t understand things just because they’re little. Of course this is a blessing and a curse. On one hand, I treat them like people who have the capacity to understand but on the other hand I think I expect them to understand things far beyond their years.

What comes naturally to moms? Sometimes nothing. That’s normal. Many of us don’t live the same life as women from days of yore. We aren’t born into a village and grow up in a village; we make our own village when we grow up. For many moms, the first time they hold their baby after birth is the first time they’ve ever held an infant. So many of the logistical and daily tasks of motherhood don’t come naturally. And even if you did somehow instinctively know how to put a diaper on a wriggling baby— I guarantee the circumcision care does not feel natural. Determining the appropriateness of the color of poop? Not natural. For many moms it’s feelings that come naturally: unconditional love (true for me), nurturing (true for me), protecting (true for me), loyalty (true for me), silliness (true for me), forgiveness (not true for me) and patience (not true for me). For some moms it’s structure and boundaries (nope), problem-solving (meh), sacrificing (mmmm not really), being laid-back (ish), playing (no), shaping them (yes) and feeling that maternal instinct (yes. sort of.) As always, it isn’t black and white.

*Can we be backtrack for a moment? I would have a dozen more infants. The infant stage comes naturally to me. But, God willing, they grow. They get bigger and older and more opinionated and more insolent. I love these humans— I really do— but I don’t think I could handle a dozen more personalities, a dozen more attitudes, a dozen more food preferences, a dozen more camp tuitions, a dozen more 1/2/3/4/5 year sleep regressions, a dozen more people asking me for things all at the same time, a dozen more fighters in the ring, a dozen more stories at bedtime, a dozen more toddlers going through a Blippi phase… you get the picture.

1. Hmm… Maybe that unconditional feeling of love? What comes easy to me? Eating their leftover food. Eating their leftover mac and cheese and chicken nuggets. That’s it. That’s really what comes naturally. That’s fair, right?

2. Nurturing. Nurturing, being there, and being loyal. I had a weird upbringing and so to start out being a mom was never something that I had to do. It was something that if I did do, great and if not, I’d be fine. But if I was going to do it, I was going to do it to the best of my ability, and being there for her is my number one thing that I have to do and I do do it well.

3. I think structure. Giving my kids boundaries and structure is something that came very naturally to me. We have a lot of rules but knowing what battles to pick. If my older son wants to do armpit farts around the house that doesn’t bother me; that’s not a battle I’m going to pick. I think it’s fine but that bothers other people. I know that. It doesn’t bother me. What bothers me is whining and bad behavior and being so spoiled and asking me for things all the time. I think problem-solving and setting boundaries is something I’ve been pretty good at.

4. Babyhood did not come naturally to me and I envy those people who did. I feel like middle school/high school is less effort for me. Like having to read to my kids at night— super didn’t mind it— but my kids still make fun of me because I’d be reading the book and then I’d be reading silently because I’d be getting into the story and they’d be like: hello?! And I like having the conversations about what was interesting in class today and doing sort of roses and thorns at the end of the day.

5. I would say I was surprised in how well I have that instinct about my kids and know my kids because it’s something that can’t be learned or read or prepared for. So when you read all those things about like, “Oh your baby will have all these different cries and you’ll recognize the difference,” I’d read it and think: I would never be able to recognize the difference in a cry; why would I know how to do that? But it’s things like that that I think is the natural part of being a mom for me and I would guess for everyone. But I was surprised in myself that it was those kinds of things or just like, seeing how they’re standing and knowing that something’s wrong or that kind of stuff.

And you don’t believe it. For me I certainly didn’t believe until I was a mom that I would ever have that instinct because, I mean, I never really liked kids. I mean I like kids but before I had kids I never had an interest in like, playing with kids all the time. I mean it just wasn’t me. But yeah, my husband Googled when we first had our daughter— he literally probably spent an hour or two Googling the correct way to give a baby a bottle. Because, you know, he just wanted to make sure he was doing it right and have the process you know. So there’s things like that, like best ways to give the baby a bath. There’s things you can do for that kind of stuff.

6. Saying no. I was a teacher for a few years after college and that experience, even though it was only 4 years, it really taught me a lot about discipline. And I read a lot of books on child psychology and all this kind of stuff even before I even thought about becoming a parent. And I think one of the things that was very evident to me, because I was teaching kids in high school, is how lenient their parents were and what that did to their little personalities and what that did to their sense of entitlement as high schoolers. So it was really at that point where I was like yeah, I’m never gonna have a problem saying no to my kids or having those hard battles. It hurts sometimes when you break a kid’s heart and you know you did it but I always think about: this is good for you in the future. You’ll like me when you’re older.

It doesn’t extend to the things, where, you know, as a parent, I will never allow my kid to do x, y, z; it doesn’t go that far. I had this whole thing about iPads and that all went out the window the minute I was like I just wanna have a nice date with my husband. Here you go— here’s your device. But overall I think there is, right now, a big movement or trend or just notion that kids should decide things and kids should have say in a lot of things that are way beyond their years and in some cases that’s appropriate and in many cases it’s just not appropriate at all and I just— I have no problem putting my kids in their place. And also other people that think that they can let my kids say things or do things in their place. I remember how idyllic my childhood was and I think it’s because I was kind of oblivious to everything. I would just get up and play with my friends and I wasn’t trying to change the world as a six year old; I wasn’t trying to revolutionize anything. I was just doing my job as a kid and when things became appropriate to know about that’s when I figured it out. Probably later than some. But I just feel like it added to an innocence in my childhood.

7. I think sacrificing comes naturally— more naturally I think to me than it does to my husband. I’m probably quite— I’m an emotional person— so I think that I’m quite sensitive and probably also a little too lenient with the kids because I think forgiveness and patience and all those things come naturally to me. I think what is a little more challenging for me is that tough love and that sense of encouraging strength and courage and independence because— and part of it is mom guilt— because I’m at work so naturally my base case is I feel bad because I’m not with you between 9 and 5 so in evenings and on the weekends I’m constantly overcompensating, right? And if somebody says, “oh do you want to do this?” I’m like no I can’t do that on a Saturday – Saturday is my day with the kids. And that’s a very natural reaction for me but I think for my husband he’s like, “no but you’re still you and you can live your own life and you should do these things.” But I feel like I live with this permanent case of mom guilt and I must maximize every moment that I have at home which means that things like going for a haircut or going to the doctor’s office or going to the dentist’s office— I’m like of course I have to do that with the kids but mine can wait, you know, so whether that’s a good thing or bad I don’t know but that’s definitely something for me that’s very natural and obvious.

8. I think I’m pretty laid back. I think I see a lot of moms— helicopter— there’s a new word it’s more than helicopter. There’s another new word similar to helicopter. But I think I’m pretty impressed with myself that I can sometime, not all the time, just stay back; let them figure out, you know, when I hear them fight I’m like mmm I didn’t hear this; they can figure it out. When my son cries— just cry it out. I don’t care; it doesn’t bother me. I’m not like, “oh, baby, baby let me figure it out for you.” I like them to figure things out on their own. They can fail. They learn from their failure and I feel like I can do that, which I’m a little surprised by myself, because I know my mom is a Tiger Mom. Even though she won’t admit it I feel all the pressure around academic— it was more academic back then in China. I feel like I was so pressured throughout 12 years, right? 12 years of study? So I don’t want that on my kids. I hope I’m doing okay with that; I still have some Tiger Mom side I know sometimes for sure. So I keep telling myself: let them figure it out. I know I’m not a perfect mom and I don’t know how to be a perfect mom so we’ll just all learn it together. I keep going back to that: let’s grow together, figure it out together.

There are still moments my daughter gives me a hard time. I don’t even know what happened, it’s time to get ready for bed. All of a sudden she just started crying, won’t let me know what’s going on. But the next morning she’s fine.

9. Managing all of their lives, their day to day, their scheduling, their meals and their caretaking even though I’m not there. Making sure they’re well-rounded. That’s really very natural.

10. I love drawing with him. We’re kind of a big arts family and I’ve always gravitated to those things, and we do find that it’s a lot of fun with him because it’s like our art world just keeps on expanding, because his interests just keep on expanding within that world. And we find that, like, this morning we woke up and he’s like, “Mommy, I want to draw with you.” So we sit down and we get out the crayons and I said to him, “What do you want to draw?” and he’s like, “What do you want to draw?” and I said, “No, no, I want it to come from your imagination.” So he told me he wants a cake on a table with a picnic table with flowers and an airplane. So my husband draws the airplane because he invites my husband over to draw that. I draw the people on the table. He draws the table. And we all make art together. And that’s a typical morning, it really is. Especially on the weekend when we have a little bit more time. Then when he gets tired of drawing, sometimes my husband will pick up his guitar and, like this morning, he was playing a song for my son and then he was playing a song for me. My husband is not a professional musician but he loves to play guitar and we have a lot of instruments in our house, so he’ll sit down and he’ll play, you know, “Brown Eyed Girl” for me and he’ll play a song from Green Day for my son and my son loves it. So we try to just kind of be free form about it and spontaneous and the art part of it and also reading. We like to read books to him a lot. And that’s always fun because we let him choose what he wants. And he picks it. He decides. And it helps him go to sleep at night; I read to him every night without fail, and that’s how he goes to sleep.

We usually land at around 6 books but some nights he’s just not tired and he’s having trouble winding down and it can go as high as 9, 10, 12. And some nights he’s so physically exhausted that he crashes out when I’m on the 3rd book. So you know, it’s definitely a case by case basis.

11. Just being a protector, you know? I’m very, very protective about them, that’s just like, I don’t have to try, like being careful about them.

12. Daughter: I think being silly wasn’t too much of a stretch for me. That was in my wheel-house. Even that actually took a few weeks because his humor was not— first of all he wasn’t smiling yet and second I was like wow, this kid really likes it over the top. I’m more dry in my comic sensibilities— But that sort of quickly evolved into being, you know, goofy and insane and realizing that I can just pull that out and that comes easily. And then I pull it out everywhere in public— just sort of anywhere I am —like all over. What about you, Mom?

Mom: You know, I don’t think anything initially came naturally to me except protective. I knew that this was a person that I was going to protect. But I remember my husband brought her to me after and I thought: what am I supposed to feel? I thought it was going to be like fireworks like how they would say it was like a first kiss and you’re supposed to have fireworks and I thought that would happen. And that didn’t happen. But I did know oh, she’s important and she needs to be protected.​

13. I don’t know if this is exactly answering your question, but I feel like my parenting superpower is that I can literally completely tune out whining. Somehow it does not upset me at all when kids are whining about not having a good time. Although I consider myself a very empathetic person, in this particular category, I just one hundred percent feel it is not my job to make sure they’re having fun at all times. And in some ways I think this is empowering for them to realize that they can control their own happiness.

14. I mean, I think I tend to be on the more nurturing side, especially having been a teacher for 10 years now; I think that’s just part of my personality that’s innate. You know, I also think that from my own upbringing I think I’m pretty good at the balance between being firm and also being fun and, you know, loving and caring but not letting them get away with anything and everything, kind of.

15. I think being a caregiver has come naturally to me and I don’t know that I would have anticipated that. But sick children, for example. When my kids are sick, there’s nothing that comes more naturally to me than waiting on them hand and foot and trying to make them better; I don’t find that remotely— aside from being sad that they’re sick and sad for them— I love being in a role where I’m caring for a little human. And also the responsibility of shaping them. I love that. And the older they get and the more inquisitive and curious they get. I genuinely love the teaching: teaching the ways of the world. It’s a tremendous responsibility and I’m always very— if my older son asks me a question I’m like that’s an important question and my answer really matters. I’m very, sort of, careful. And that has come naturally to me. I’m not sure it’s come naturally to my husband.

16. Love. I want to just love my kids. I just want them to know no matter wherever they go in their lives no matter what they do that their mom loves them. And I whisper that in their ears every night, all the time, I’m like, “Mommy loves you” and my younger daughter just, she’ll suck her thumb and curl her hair she’ll nod like, mhm. They know. I just want them to feel it. Because I think sometimes— I teach middle school. It’s a rough age. They’re impressionable and I think sometimes when there’s that disconnect, like, you might stop— not loving your kids— but maybe the affection is there differently. Like, I cook for them and I take care of them and they have a house and clothes but I think it’s important to just feel the love. Not just to have things. I want them to just know. I kiss them and I hug them all the time. Because my parents weren’t very affectionate people. I think they loved me. They love me. But I think they just show it differently and I think that maybe I would have liked it a little bit more? More hugs or something as a kid. And I want my kids to always feel like they can hug me and kiss me. I just like to show them that love. I want them to always be able to come to me for anything. At all. They have to come to me.

17. I would say taking care of him felt like it came naturally. I knew what he needed. I’m very good at knowing what my role is and doing it so I felt like once I knew that that was my role— I don’t know at first. But I did love him so, so much so it did come naturally to just protect him and to always respond to whatever he needed. I had a very strong urge to always take care of him. If he cried or had a wet diaper or to make sure he was comfortable. That came very naturally to me.

18. Not much. For me, motherhood did not come naturally. I was the youngest child in my family so I had never been in a babysitting role much. I had always kind of been a caretaker in some sense like in relationships I was in. As a social worker I was helping other people so I guess I was kind of nurturing but there’s not a lot that was intuitive. I really wanted to breastfeed early on and it was a struggle. It ended up feeling great and natural but it was not intuitive to me. And also I discovered early on that my child was an extreme extrovert and I was an introvert so that took a lot of getting used to. She, even as a three month old, wanted to be out in the supermarket doing things and I wanted to be hiding at home. So—

19. I think that naturally I’m a giver and I want to see people happy so it came very natural to me to give them the best of me. It wasn’t hard for me to walk away from things to take care of them. It was very easy, like, I am at this age I want them. I’m ready to give them whatever they need without feeling like I’m missing out on other things. So I think all of me is what I was able to give them without feeling hesistant. But I’m older too. So if I had them 10 years before now it would be a different story.

20. Being a caretaker. I have a natural tendency to want to take care of people and do everything I can to make them feel loved and safe.

21. I think loving him? Which I know seems like an easy answer but I remember in my new moms group that I went to it was like all of our babies were born within a month of each other and I was like, “I didn’t expect that I would love him so fiercely.” And the facilitator was like, “If you’re in the room and you’re hearing that and that’s not your experience just don’t worry—” And yeah. I think that just came, has come, really naturally. And with that that sort of fierce love, too, like I will mess you up if you mess with my child.

22. I have to tell you, when my first was born I was shocked at how she could do absolutely nothing for herself. I mean I was absolutely shocked at how helpless she was because I had not had any experience with any other babies. I don’t know if anything really came naturally. Putting on a diaper did not come naturally. I had problems with nursing; I stopped right away. You know, holding her and kissing her— that came naturally, but not much else.

23. El amor.

24. I guess I’m good at— it is a lot of problem-solving— that’s how I feel the whole thing— not that every day there’s a problem, but it’s like okay— because you could have a routine but it’s not always the same routine and you just have to figure out how you can back into not just what you want but what works best. My best days, where I feel the best and I feel like I’m really doing a great job, are the days when I come home and I’m like: we did all these things and everyone was happy and it was fun. Or we did nothing and it was great and this started to happen but look at how we were able to fix it. I think that’s a lot of what comes naturally to me. I don’t like to sign them up for a million things. Because I’ve done that and I think I over-scheduled my daughter and I think she was a wreck and exhausted; and I like to schedule a lot of downtime but with that comes, like, not necessarily me entertaining them, but figuring out how to diffuse more things. Or like not just have the TV on. We usually watch 1-3 shows a day depending on the day and the weather. So I think what comes naturally to me is how to structure the day so that there’s a little bit of structure and everyone is happy but also has plenty of time so they’re not just rushing place to place. Because that’s when I feel like I’m always yelling like: let’s go! Do this! Or I have to ask her a thousand times. We talk about “getting her plays out” and then resting. And then making sure she eats, which is always a thing. So, like, a loose structure but with opportunities for her to make choices. I think the reason it’s all problem-solving is because that’s what happens to me in my brain, like, this is how we are going to do this. We’ll piece it together. I don’t know if other moms would say that as much.

In the beginning I read all the books— the ones that seemed to make sense to me— and she wasn’t sleeping through the night. What’s the one that’s so common? I don’t know, where it’s like: you eat, play, sleep is supposed to be the way it goes and she just wasn’t doing it. And the first 3 months were hard but it was, like, great. And then around 4 months— I was like alright we probably need to get a schedule because this is when everyone says they’ll start sleeping and this is when you’re supposed to start sleep training. And I re-read Bringing Up Bebe and we read the Tribeca Pediatrics book— I forget what that guy wrote— we read both those things, both my husband and I, and so in my head we were going to have this schedule that all these are other people have and it just like wasn’t happening and I was feeling like I was failing. And then, I’ll never forget, it was right around 4 months and I was exhausted because that’s definitely the mark where you’re like: I’ve totally lost my mind and I said to my mom, “I’m drowning and you’re not helping me; I’m trying to make a schedule.” And my mom is not a scheduled person ever and it mostly works for her. She doesn’t care so it works for her. Outside of, like, she’s always late for things but, like, whatever. So she got it but didn’t understand. I’d be like, “she needs to go down for a nap.” And like an hour later she’d be like, “well she was playing!” And I remember thinking: this is terrible. I’m not doing it right. I’m so tired. She should be sleeping and other babies are doing this and blah blah blah and, like, when I just listened to her and we had our own schedule and I fed her when she wanted to eat and whatever everyone was happy. So why don’t I just take this as advice but do what we were doing and somehow meld them and that was a real defining motherhood moment for me: when I was realizing I can’t read all the books and take them as gospel because that was going to destroy me and also when I realized you could either be a super structured mom and control everything or I could just learn to roll with the punches and just— oh, that’s what we’re playing today and that’s not going to work and it’s okay. Because when I do the structure I was destroyed. And I really felt that I was failing. But when I felt like, well we’re not gonna get to that place today; guess we’re ordering dinner or guess we’re not gonna do whatever it was— maybe tomorrow. That was like— I became a much better, happier mom. But again it backs into ability to roll with it but also restructure constantly: so we didn’t leave at 3:30; we’re leaving at 7. My only thing when she was a baby, because we lived in an apartment, we needed to get outside every single day. And it wasn’t that hard because we had to walk the dogs. That was the only thing that I was like that has to happen. Everything else we can just figure out. But she can’t and I can’t just be in an apartment just all day. No matter what. But that, I think, that’s when I became a more laid-back person and made motherhood more fun for me. And I thought— oh I thought I was pretty structured and type A but I’m really— I like things neat but I don’t need to be strict on everything.

25. I was surprised— I wasn’t surprised at how much I love my girls or how much I wanted to care for them— I was surprised at how I felt, like, intuitive, you know, when they’re this age and they can’t speak; I felt like I knew what was wrong with them or what they needed to feel better. Because sometimes you read that it is natural— motherhood and being nurturing and everything but I was surprised at how quickly I picked up on: this is gas, this is this, this is that and what they needed to feel better. Like a magic trick. Certain things did come naturally to me in caring for them. Certain things that I have to explain to my husband. I don’t know. If one of the kids is crying— how can I just read their minds and know that— I’ll say to my husband just go pick her up and he’s like, what do I do? I was surprised at how at ease I am with those things.

26. Showing affection.

27. I don’t want to say worrying, right? Loving I guess. And the beauty of having these people to shower love on. In addition I’m gonna tell you something. In addition to loving a husband it’s a different kind of love. It’s very special.

So there you have it: 27 answers to the same question.

Coming up (perhaps not surprisingly) — What does not come naturally to you as a mother?

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