Mom Talk – Part 14

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  Taking selfies so I can choose a featured image. First attempt: looking thoughtful

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  Pretending to smile at someone like we’re having a fabulous conversation

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  Deciding that maybe the most important thing to show is the size of my coffee cup. #jarsofdust

Question: What didn’t I ask you that you would have thought I would have asked? What didn’t you get a chance to say?

What questions didn’t I ask? A dozen that I can think of. Hundreds that are waiting in the deep recesses of my brain to be thought of. For the time being, read on.

Answers:

1. No I think you got everything.

2. I think you covered everything.

3. I would have thought you would have asked me about advice I would give to certain people on certain things. I think that’s really interesting to hear people’s advice because everyone comes from such different backgrounds and different marriages and different kids. There’s so many elements between, you know, the relationship with the spouse or work or all these different things. The balance. I think a big topic of conversation, especially in my world, is the juggle— the balance— work/life balance. That topic comes up almost every day in my life with people. So talking about how motherhood affects work, how you identify yourself— your own identity and how motherhood affects that. Most people have had kids in their late 20s or 30s so you have worked— you’ve built some career— how children affect that. Something that you identified with for so long, that you’ve worked so hard for, and how motherhood affects that. That to me is a very big topic of conversation that should always be addressed because it does affect it for anyone who had kids a little bit later.

Unfortunately today, it’s 2019, you have to accept the fact that it ain’t fair. It’s just not fair. It’s all gonna fall on you. The men cannot have the babies. You have to have the baby—that’s just how it is. You have to be pregnant, you have to have the baby, you have to recover from it. You’re in charge of that and no one can change a damn thing about it and you have to accept the fact that it’s basically like working while you are sick: you are not at 100% during that pregnancy— you’re just not— and you’re certainly not at 100% after the pregnancy and your priorities change and things change and things shift but that doesn’t mean it’s the end of the road. It doesn’t mean its the end of your career. Careers don’t have to be linear. There are options out there if you want to switch gear or you want to take your career down a few notches there are options. You just have to explore them. It’s not all or nothing anymore.

And here’s the other thing I like to talk about because people don’t talk about it enough— and some people will get mad at me for saying this but not many. My opinion, and I think the opinion of many other people, is that you cannot be a great CEO, a great mother, a great friend and a great wife all at the same time; I just don’t believe that. Something’s gotta give. So if you’re the CEO— and that’s an extreme— any sort of big, big major job that’s very demanding and very prestigious— there’s no way you’re also the best mom in the world. I’m sorry, you have to travel. You can be a loving mother but you’re certainly not the most hands-on because it’s impossible. Oh wait and there’s a spouse too. And that person needs your love and attention and a date night and, you know, compassion; and he’s had quite a day also. Unless he’s the stay-at-home dad and that’s another dynamic. But the point is you can’t be it all so something’s gotta give and you have to make choices sometimes and when you have small children, which one’s gonna give? Oh wait and then your girlfriends want to hang out too and you don’t want to lose those friendships so there’s all these things pulling at you. So for people who think you can lean in and have it all, I honestly think it’s bullshit. I don’t believe that at all. Sorry, I know that book sold a lot of copies. I’m sorry. That only works for a very narrow kind of person. I’ve been in the corporate world for a long time. I have my own business; I know what’s what. The women who are in their 40s in big time jobs— they are not the same types of mothers that they want to be. They feel guilty all the time. There’s only so many hours of the day. Oh wait and you have to also throw in self-care like working out. But it’s all a balance. People constantly ask me— I don’t know why they ask me this— it’s really interesting, “are you working, like, part time?” I’m like, I have a full time business; this isn’t a hobby— it’s full time. But it’s my version of full time and the hours are spread out. My older son’s last day of school is on Tuesday and I want to be there to pick him up and that’s in the middle of the day. So I blocked out three hours of time in the middle of the day but I’ll catch up either that night after he goes to sleep or I’ll catch up the next day.

I don’t want the time to pass and I don’t want the day to come where I look back and it is too late. I never wanted to regret not trying to create something, to create a legacy, to create something that has meaning and that has meaning to me.

Not everyone feels this way; this is just me. I always say to my friends who are stay-at-home moms: I wish I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom because I have the privilege, if I wanted, to be a stay-at-home mom— to be able to do that— and I don’t want to be. I sometimes feel guilty because I don’t want to be but at the same time I don’t feel guilty. As it is now, the time I have with my kids I enjoy because I appreciate it. Because I have other things going on and I work. But I think if I were a stay-at-home mom I would not feel as appreciative of the time I have with them and I don’t think my marriage would be as strong. And eventually, by the way, they go to school and then eventually they leave and then what? That was always my fear – that time will come so fast and then what am I doing? Then what am I doing with myself? So. I think this is a common conversation that people have. Men don’t have to have these conversations, but women do.

4. What might be interesting for a book like this is to talk about how motherhood might maybe affect professional life or career development. Maybe not?

5. I don’t think there’s anything else I was thinking you would ask. I really didn’t know what we were doing. Is that okay? Anything else? I feel like once this baby comes I could have a lot more things to say. I mean I just hope it’s healthy. But if it’s not it would be a whole other chapter of my book.

6. Do I like my kids? No I’m kidding. How do I— maybe not every mother feels like they need to escape motherhood— but how do I escape motherhood when I need to? Because I definitely need to. And that is just hiding somewhere. Going to yoga. And also I would say, you know, how has my husband’s approach at being a father affected my approach at being a mother? I think there’s a misconception sometimes that men don’t pull their fair share and that’s a very antiquated concept I feel like. I think it was true in the Baby Boomer generation. I think this generation of dads, at least from what I’ve seen, but personally and around me, dads are really pulling their weight at home. And I think thinking about being a parent when I was young versus what that has turned into now, it really is a team effort.

It’s funny. It’s more so about women’s natural ability to organize and prioritize maybe. That was one of the biggest points of contention between my husband and me when we first had kids it was— from the Break Up— “I don’t need you to do the dishes; I need you to want to do the dishes.” We want not only the physical labor to be unburdened but we want the mental labor that’s required to do all these things like the Christmas cards or— we have not yet sent out the we’ve moved cards— or the medical forms for camp and little things that get piled up. I’m trying to shift it in that direction but also, and I think about this too: when we first started living together I had a condo and I just didn’t want to be a landlord anymore so I moved out of my condo and we rented it out and I was like, yeah I want nothing to do with this. Here you go. And now he handles that and he handles all of the finances and he handles all of the, you know, when we are finally ready to sell our house he’s going to do all of it. So I forgive him a little bit. I also understand that he’s got his own other things that he’s worried about that he’s better suited to do. So if I have to tell him sometimes, “hey, you have to clean out the garage” it’s fine. But it is a little frustrating because I’m like can’t you just read my mind? Just read my mind. Just get it from in there please.

If I say to my husband, “I’m going to hot yoga and you can’t stop me like, bye, peace out—” I used to worry about well what is he going to do with the kids? Is he going to feed them? And I’ve gotten to the point where— well the kids have gotten a little older and they can say what they want— but like I just go. In fact I just go a lot. When it’s my mom or my husband’s mom or my husband I’m like: figure it out. If they’re hungry, they’ll tell you. Just give them some water. Just make sure they don’t dehydrate and we’re good. So I’m a little less neurotic about micromanaging their things. My mom is not. So funny story. My mom had something where she couldn’t be with us for a week so my husband’s mom stayed with us for a week and got them off to school. My mother made a list: “She will only eat x, y and z” and she made a whole list. And do you know what I did when she left? I threw it in the garbage. And I’m like to my mother-in-law: you got this. I’m sure you’ll know what to make them for lunch. If they don’t like it, they won’t eat it and they’ll eat when they come home.

It was fine; everyone was fine. The funny thing about my mom— she spends every single day with the girls but they like what they like because she manages it for them but my husband’s mom has a completely different way of doing it and she does different things and I can’t let my mom impose on her or me. Because my mom’ll tell me, “this one doesn’t like x, y, z” and I’m like, really? Well she’s gonna eat it or she’s gonna starve. So that’s been interesting. People will figure it out. I said to somebody because we were having a conversation about are we going to hold a kid back? I will face that challenge or that decision with my younger daughter because she was born in September. “Are you gonna hold her back?” “I don’t know, I guess I’ll see when I get there.” “Because there have been studies done about x, y, z” and I’m like, our kids will be fine just by virtue of the fact that they’re our kids; we care— we care so much— and this decision— even if it turns out she has a bad time in second grade because of something— I’m not going to go back and be like it’s because I didn’t send her early or late or whatever. They’re gonna be fine.

The other thing I’ll tell you I think is funny. I was talking to a cousin of mine. Long story short, she was very coddled by her parents when she was little and she and I are the same age. It sucks but she went through a rough time. She got married to someone she shouldn’t have gotten married to, he left her, she was like depressed for a long time, she went through bouts and bouts of depression and now she blames her mom because her mom always coddled her. And I’m like— all of our parents did the best they could; they all did what was right. You can’t have resentment towards her because she didn’t let you fail or didn’t let you do this. Now you’ve gotta get over it because you’re 38. But I did say my mom was always very self-centered when she was young. This is a new mom that I have now; she’s amazing to her grandkids. To me and my sister she was kind of never present. Not that I’m throwing her under the bus or anything. She was cool and she was strict but she was not present all the time. My dad did a lot of the parenting, a lot of the cooking at home. But I said to my cousin: you know, there’s something to be said for a little bit of neglect. We can’t go and micromanage our kids lives. If my older daughter gets a teacher that’s not highly regarded I’m not gonna go in and fight for her to get the right teacher because you know what? It might do her some good. A little neglect goes a long way. And I hate to say it that way— it sounds so dismissive, but kids’ll figure it out. None of this is going to scar them for life. Everything will be fine.

Perfectionism was a childish— something childish I held onto for a long time. I still try to do things really well; I still bring my best. But that notion that I had to be perfect to other people is what I let go of. Always, all of this comes with forgiveness of myself. Am I always going to do the right thing? No. And I just have to be okay with that. I forgive myself for yelling. Like this morning. My older daughter is very rigid. She tried on three different outfits even after we picked an outfit last night to go gymnastics camp; she didn’t like it because it was a tad big. And I lost my mind and I yelled at her; we got into a huge fight and she was crying and it didn’t go well. Later I’ll apologize. But I didn’t handle that well. But then again we’re all trying to get ready in the morning and it’s gonna go crazy so I just have to forgive myself for it. Or, like, I work a lot and I travel a lot and I have my younger daughter that says, “Mommy, can you play with me?” And I can’t because I have to get on a conference call or I have to leave or I have to do something and we’re all just trying to do the best we can so I try to forgive myself often. And maybe that line about neglect is part of me just rationalizing that for myself, but I also do believe it. I do believe it. I hope this was helpful.

8. I love your questions. I really love them because I feel like I never had the time to reflect on this motherhood— never. You just have to keep going; you don’t even have time to think about it, to reflect on it. And really this should come back every once and awhile. I think you should go back to these women, to me, in 2 years because it will change and the story will only be better.

9. When are you most stressed? Or when do you feel like you’re lacking as a parent? Right? Some negative stuff. You asked a lot of positives. For me, when I feel like I can’t be there for them when I want to be there. Like last week was end of school stuff so you’re making a priority to be at the school event, the party, but it’s also the last day of gymnastics and there’s a parent thing that day and the last day of swimming also in that week and you just can’t make it all; that’s when I get really stressed out because it impacts them. And I see it.

So I pick the ones I can go to; I try to make sure my husband can go to something or the two of us are at the most important things together. Because it’s also hard when you go to an event and both parents are there and your spouse isn’t. And we just try to do our best.

Most dads in this town work, some moms don’t. So they expect that the dad won’t be there to all these things but they expect that the mom will be there. So I’m constantly reinforcing that you know: Mommy works. Mommy has a great job and it’s a good thing for Mom and for you and Mommy will always get to as much as she can get to. And it might not always be every time but I will make it my job to get to the most important things.

I’m so disappointed. A couple of weeks ago I couldn’t go to an event because of an important meeting and the meeting was just not important. And we walked away from it— I was just devastated. I was like, why did I waste my time with this? When I had my first child one of the ladies I worked with said, “every day you’re going to have to leave at the time when you think is right for you and other people won’t leave at that time. And you need to be okay with it and walk out the door with your head held high.” And I’ve very much stuck to it. But even today I leave for the 5:18 train and nobody else is leaving and I have to be okay with that. So part of it is just changing your anxieties and guilt and your feelings and perception of other people. Not caring. Because your kids are most important.

My sister once said to me when I was thinking about quitting, “you don’t have to not work; right now you have to work less. So you need to find the right situation where you can work less than what you were previously doing” and that’s hard. It’s like finding the right fit and the right job. And that can’t be both parents. Because somebody has to bring home the bacon. She also always said, “you’re never going to get to everything; you have to pick what’s most important.” so those are two rules I follow and like you said, just forgiving yourself. It’s hard. It’s so hard. It’s hard for everybody. If I were home it would be just as hard. I can step away from motherhood so much every day and be in my previous life and enjoy that, right? Like all the adult interactions and the brain work and everything. And I couldn’t do that if I were at home and that would be really hard on my mental strength.

10. Oh no! Not necessarily. I think they were great and I think it’s a great initiative for so many reasons. I think the whole celebrity culture thing— I don’t understand why people take advice— because they’re not living in the real world and you’re only seeing one side of how they do things. They could be a horrible mother. The picture doesn’t show them with all the other things that are going on in their lives it’s just a picture.

I guess other things that come up, I don’t know, I think we touched on a lot of good things. One thing I notice is that there are so many misconceptions that come up about motherhood. Some people think it’s so easy, you know, I have gotten a lot of that at work. You know, you can just do this assignment and it’s no problem and they don’t appreciate that I’ve done this assignment while there’s a kid screaming in the background and there’s this going on and craziness happening around me. There are people who don’t appreciate motherhood and it does always take me by surprise but it does exist and I think that that’s something that I have to learn to respond to or sometimes maybe just not engage with. I have seen things happen with moms being sort of shamed and that always makes me so uncomfortable. But there still is that undercurrent with women where there is a lot of mom-shaming that goes on. The kid is screaming in the restaurant and another person complains and says things like your kid is only cute to you. I’ve heard things like that. I think that’s so messed up. I just think there has to be more tolerance in general in the world. I think maybe it starts with— maybe that’s something mom culture can drive. Let’s be tolerant. Let’s understand there’s a lot of work that goes into being a mom and just appreciate and value them. Show some respect while you’re at it.

I’m so happy to be in the world of moms. I always wanted to go over to that side. And it’s like I do feel like now an automatic kinship with someone on the street who’s a mom with a child who is having a tantrum in the middle of the street and I’m like: oh I feel your pain. And I do feel that sympathy for the child that’s crying. I hate the sound of a child crying. It’s the worst sound in the world. I still go like a radar to that child anywhere in a five minute radius of me I will find them and I will zero in on them. And it’s so rewarding to be in that world and I get so much joy from it and I hope to have one more. We’ll see.

11. Not really. But I think the society puts a lot of pressure on being— there’s this whole term of good mothering. That should not be in a part of anybody’s dictionary. I think every mother does the best. Every mother is a good mother. There are sometimes there are circumstances which, you know, things happen, but I think every mother is a good mother.

12. Mom: I thought you did a great job of covering all the aspects of motherhood. I couldn’t think of anything else. First of all your openness, and you’re very warm and it’s easy to talk to you.

Daughter: I think your questions were open-ended enough that people could really tailor them to their own experiences. I think that’s important because there is no singular maternal experience. I think there’s things in common: how do you structure your time, always feeling interrupted, tired, whatever. But I spend too much time looking at mothers’ responses on the internet and sometimes I feel like they must be raising a different species and sometimes I feel completely recognized. So I think you did a good job of being able to include mothers with a lot of kids, one kid—

Another thing. I think it’s important. I was very stressed out when he was born about bonding. I was very worried that he would not bond with me and I think maybe one thing I would tell that lady in the elevator is like: don’t get in your head so much about what the research says it takes for a baby to bond with you. You’re the only mom he’s got and there’s a million ways to be a mother. So stop fretting about this chemical reaction that you have no control over anyway. I was so worried I was like, he won’t bond! And there wasn’t a competition to choose like who got to be his mom it was always going to be me. And I’ve only now started to get out of that mind set like I need to do something. Just being with him all the time is the bond.

13. I don’t know what question would have led to this— maybe it would have been about lessons learned— but one thing I’ve noticed about myself in my “parenting style” is that we all have baggage from our own parents, right? And so in an effort to not be your mom or your dad or whatever thing you don’t want to be like I feel like sometimes we have blind spots and we end up becoming the opposite thing which has it’s own risks but we don’t realize that. So for example my mom was really critical. She was constantly interfering with stuff even if it was like the simplest thing; I’m boiling water and she’s gonna come over and adjust the heat. So I feel like I’ve swung to the other extreme where I’m like, I’m not going to intervene at all because I don’t want you to feel micromanaged but then I’m like, well, I probably want to give you some boundaries so that you’re safe and so that you feel like you have proper advice and guidance in the world. So I feel like it’s been interesting for me to try to navigate that just because you’re not doing whatever it was your parents did that you didn’t particularly love, doesn’t mean— you gotta be careful to not do something equally as bad by trying to avoid it.

14. Did you ask what the hardest thing was? I feel like your questions got at that without being so direct. I think it’s a good set of questions because it’s open-ended enough that people can take it where they want.

I was super busy in work over the period of a couple of months in November through January. Too busy. And my younger son’s first birthday was in November. And I didn’t come down from work until it was like 7. Dinner was ready and it was time to eat and I had hardly seen him on his first birthday. I realize that birthdays are— it’s this arbitrary thing— if I see him the day before and the day after it’s not, you know, but I came down and I started crying. I was like I haven’t even seen my baby and it’s his first birthday and he’s the best baby ever and this is not what I signed up for. It wasn’t guilty as much as mad. I deserve to be with him on his first birthday but I had so much work and it’s client work that just needs to get done. So I had a little cry and I got over it. I was like, first of all, realizing that whether it’s yesterday or tomorrow really it’s not that big of a deal. Second of all, I have control over this I can scale down. And third of all, he feels loved and I’m a good mom and it’s okay; this is just one day and it’s okay to feel frustrated. So I talked myself off the ledge. It was a combination of feeling guilt and anger and frustration.

15. I think one of the things— I don’t know if there’s something you should have asked. I worked up until I gave birth and then I’ve been on a child care leave a little longer than expected. It’s a little lonely I think. Motherhood can be lonely. And it’s hard, when you get older, to make friends. You know what I mean? Bitch, I don’t have time to fucking make friends with you like we can’t brunch, do you know what I mean? But I think you have to just— I don’t know— it’s like a sink or swim type of job. You don’t know how you do it, you just do it. You know the movie Groundhog Day? It’s like the never ending day. From birth until— I don’t know— when will I relax? When they’re 40 or 80?

I’m going back to work in September and I have an au pair coming. I’m like one of those now. And I say that and I vomit in my mouth. If someone would have told me that like 10 years ago I’d be like, “I’m not going to have a fucking au pair.” But because of our hours I need it. And I’m worried. I think my kids are going to be fine; I think it’s me. My friend was here this weekend she was like, “it’s you. You’re kids will be fine. You’re going to be the mess. She’s like, watch, your kids will be fine.”

Everyone’s like: become a teacher! Your hours are great! Well what the heck do you do when you have to be at work and your kids have to be at school an hour and a half later? Because my start time is 7:43 at my new school. My kids don’t go to preschool until 9. I have to leave my house at 6 AM. My husband leaves the house at 6 AM.

One of the biggest things that I was worried about going back to work— you know when they have the little Thanksgiving stuff? I told my husband and I’m like I’m going to have to call your aunt to go or my mom might have to go or you might have to go into work late one day. I don’t want my kids to be the only kids without somebody there to love on them. My mom worked but she went back to work when I went to Kindergarten. She worked at a doctor’s office.

It’s hard. Women are expected to have a work life, have a home life, have a social life. And your kids and then this and then that. And it’s like when can we just sit and pick our toenails, you know? Seriously. I had no help when my kids were little; I didn’t have a nanny because I stayed at home— whatever. My husband would come home and I was like I’m gonna go and sit in the bathroom. He’s like, “oh, what are you gonna do? I just got home from work.” “I’m gonna fucking pick my toenails, that’s what I’m gonna do. You have no right to ask me what the fuck I’m going to do. You got to go and have adult conversations all day. I got to argue with a two and half year old.” So my husband comes home and he was like, “how was your day?” And I was like, “fuck you I want to sit and pick my fucking toenails for ten minutes. In peace!” And he’s like, “okay, okay go ahead.” And of course I know what’s going to happen— he’s not going to watch them. They’re banging on the door and I’m like, “can you just fucking take them on a walk around the building? I just want quiet.” And he’s like, “you okay? You look a little tense.” And I’m like, “fuck you.” He’s like, “well I worked all day” and I’m like, “I haven’t showered in like 4 days. Fuck off.” Do you know what I mean? I feel like sometimes it’s a competition of, like, who has a right to be more tired. I’m like, I haven’t washed my hair in 4 days and he’s like, well I don’t have any hair. I’m like, well that’s not my fault. Let me bathe? Can I bathe? Do you want a hug? Please let me bathe.

16. I don’t know if you were going to ask me more about parenting styles or how do you get through a day? What do you do to get through a day? How do you get through a day? Is it working out? Is it taking 20 minutes for yourself? What are the best tools you can use? Even if it’s not escaping, it’s just what do you need day to day to be who you want to be? Maybe it’s someone likes to go running for 20 minutes but maybe it’s reading to their kids for 15 minutes; maybe it’s quiet time with your kids. And maybe most of the time it will be without their children. Probably I just more look at it like it doesn’t feel like escaping to me like this helps me get through my day. I don’t know that I’m escaping necessarily my kids are right there. I can hear them. I have to give them breakfast and I have to be mindful of them so I wouldn’t call this an escape but this interaction helps me get through my day because it’s like I’m not just with them all day long.

17. You asked a lot of really good questions. I think when I think of motherhood and kind of the social constructs around it especially for suburban moms like, what’s interesting to me is kind of what grouping people pair themselves into. There’s the cliché of the granola, hippie attachment parent and then there’s a lot of parents, their identity of being a working mom. There’s a million things. I guess you could ask people, like, do you classify yourself as a particular kind of mom or if you had to what group or school would you be in?

I think I had kind of a gravitational pull towards attachment parenting but it felt like it didn’t work for who my kid was. Because, like, people would be like “just bring the baby into the bed with you” and I would complain that she wouldn’t sleep. And she never wanted to sleep next to us. Or people would be like “why don’t you just wear her?” I’m like because she’s not happy being worn either. I mean I did sometimes but it didn’t seem like there was any solution that was a catch-all for all my mom troubles and I also just feel like I don’t want to be part of some mom cliché.

If you find yourself in a group of moms that you’re not familiar with there’s certain topics of conversation that always inevitably come up and then people kind of, I dont know, it’s a weird push and pull because in one circumstance all the moms feel united in this common experience and they’re trying to relate to one another but then there’s a lot of defensiveness too. Like I was joking with my friend— I went to a birthday party of one of my husband’s friend’s kids who we haven’t seen in years and she has a very tight-knit group of moms from her daycare. And they were very supportive of one another but, as an outsider, it was very hard to break into it because they were like oh, you don’t work? And like I’ve known some mom groups where moms kind of almost adopt a bad moms attitude like almost like: I’m not going to be perfect; I’m going to literally joke about being the opposite of a good parent, which I find hard to relate to because to me so much of my day is thinking about motherhood, like it’s my job, you know? But then I don’t know. I wonder if that’s just me being judgmental. I have no idea.

It’s so interesting because dads don’t have that. They can just talk to other dads and have this commonality and make easy conversation where there’s no one’s feelings are being hurt and it’s not contentious at all. I feel like I have different groups of friends that are all really different and I can get along with them; like I don’t feel like I fit into any package in that way. Yeah, it’s interesting. I think some of it is rooted in people’s insecurities about motherhood, which everyone has, regardless of what kind of mom you are. But I happen to be friends with a lot of people who have multiple kids, like 3 or more kids, because my town is full of huge families and so people have a lot of questions: why did you decide to have one child? What is that like? There’s kind of a line of questions like: that must be so great, you have so much time to yourself. All moms are kind of always sizing each other up. I guess all women are. People think it’s so formative. Whereas you never assume that all people who have 2 kids have the same experience.

It’s nice talking about all this stuff because people don’t really discuss it honestly like this. I have a few good friends that I do talk about the emotional components of motherhood but yeah, everyone’s always kind of, they want to bond as moms but they don’t want to step on people’s toes because they don’t want to be offensive.

It’s interesting. I’ve met moms who are kind of emotionally distanced from their kids and I feel like that really more a manifestation of like trying to tolerate the circumstances they’re in which are horrific. Like people who have shared custody where they don’t see their kids every day. Or people that work so many hours that they’re not interacting with their kids on a daily basis. And I think any woman, and maybe this sounds sexist, but I think maybe it’s a traumatic experience and when that’s happening people have to blunt themselves to the emotions and they have to put a wall up. Because I’ve met moms like that. And I’m sure they are also talking about my psychology and why I act the way I act. It’s a really intense experience. It’s also like the most common experience so it’s hard to reconcile that.

I think in some ways postmodern-feminism has left out stay-at-home moms in a way that is not good for all moms. You know, being a mom is a form of work. Whether you’re kind of outsourcing that and you have a beloved nanny who is part of your family and is helping you mother or whether you’re doing it, it’s a devalued labor force, for sure.

18. Maybe if you could change anything about your parenting what would it be? Or what is something that you learned that you didn’t already know? For me, so something that I learned— something that shocked me— is when I went from one to two. I did not realize how much siblings impact one another. I thought it was just us and our parenting. I learned very quickly how my son is being shaped by his interactions with his older sister and that he’s not having the same experience that she had. And I thought that they would. They’re raised in the same house, they’ve been given the same things. I see how he gets quiet because she hogs up so much attention so he’s willing to take a backseat to his sister. It’s not just us that molds and I think that was surprising.

If I could change anything about my parenting: I think maybe not be so intense. I think I was following in my father’s footsteps and I’m very intense. But. I’m not so sure that I would change it; I think that I would just pay more attention to it. I would watch it more closely. The whole thing is that my husband is not very strict at all. He acts like he is but he’s not when it comes to discipline and actually doing things. As far as working and doing school work that’s all on me and pushing them. So I think also it depends on your partner. You can’t have two rocks— that’s not fair to them. I think I would work a little better to feed off of my partner to give them— and it’s all growing as a parent.

Regardless of the fact if I’m working or not I know the names of their best friends and dentists. So it’s not just an excuse about work. Mothers will know that no matter what is going on in their lives. Mothers are invested in their children on a different level. I think all fathers need to see that and ask them those questions. Ask them how their day was and who did they hang out with today. Just be more invested in their personality and what’s going on. It’s like they get to be oblivious and we kind of co-sign and we allow them to do that and we shouldn’t. I’m not trying to put them down at all. They’re needed. It’s just different.

19. How being a working mother has impacted my feelings on motherhood. As a working mom, I am very aware of the sacrifices that I have to make as a mom, but also of the benefits that I believe me and my children get from me working. People say that you can’t have it all, but I am trying to prove them wrong!

20. One question that someone asked me the other day was do you still hang out with your friends who don’t have kids? Which I thought was interesting. Or like how’s the relationship going? But there was a little bit of like— my friends’ reactions at the beginning. It was kind of weird. It was like happy but it was also like—bye— and now I think now that they think Oh! You’re still you.

21. I had no idea what questions you were going to ask.

22. Si me hubiero gustado tener otro hijo.

23. I don’t know. I feel like I think we talked about a lot because a lot of the questions you asked encompassed a lot of things. I’m sure a lot of people are the same way. These specific themes that run throughout based on their personality and lifestyle and what’s important to them. And so all these different questions will come up with the same themes because that’s just who they are and that’s just what they think about. I guess you could say what are you failing at? But you asked what does not come naturally to you which is probably a kinder way—

24. I don’t know I feel like— maybe what do you like the most or least about motherhood? But you kind of asked that. I was happy that you asked questions that tapped into my emotional well being than just basically about the baby. I feel like you had good questions.

26. I guess my favorite part is sort of like the most rewarding. But what’s my least favorite part? I guess it’s the same thing— I miss sleeping on my own schedule. The weekend loses all meaning when you have a baby who’s gonna wake up at the same time no matter what day of the week it is. You know?

27. I don’t know. I guess I didn’t really have— about motherhood— I wish I had something really important and clever to add. But I don’t. I guess just that when you get to my stage you miss having your children, your children in law, your grandchildren around and that’s a very hard part of arriving at this stage. And maybe I tend to look back with such, thank goodness, fondness of those times and they bring me a lot of joy even now. That’s the positive. The negative is missing it. The positive is having the memories which light up the day. One of the things I’m doing now is I’m going through boxes of old photographs and I’m sorting them to give to my children and they give me such pleasure because I relive those times.

Is it me or are these women just ridiculously smart and impressive and clever? Conducting these interviews was an incredible experience for me. Aside from having children and fulfilling that dream of being a mother, interviewing women about motherhood pretty much sums up every other dream I have: drinking coffee, hearing about people’s lives, commiserating about motherhood, helping people think about things they wouldn’t have otherweise thought about, bringing the stories of ordinary women into the universe. If I could do this all day, every day that would be my ideal life.

On that note, I’ve got my next set of questions burning a hole in my pocket. Anyone interested in this next round? Now that we know the entire world can be run through Zoom, it’ll be a lot easier to interview people on the other side of the globe. And a lot better for my aviophobia. Until next time.

Mom Talk – Part 11

photo credit: Stacey Ilyse Photography

Question: What is the most impressive thing you have ever done?

This was one of my favorite questions because inevitably it led 27 regular women to do some self-reflection about their lives in a way that they normally wouldn’t. And to toot their own horn in a way that normally isn’t encouraged. Usually regular people don’t have the opportunity to answer questions like this. Usually it’s celebrities who are asked to reflect on their lives and toot their own horns: athletes, movie stars, musicians and other people who are admired. Ordinary moms should be admired. Toot, moms, toot.

It’s great that there are articles like the one from Oprah Magazine: 31 Celebrity Moms who Inspire Us Every Day. But we’re not all celebrities — mostly we’re not. I get annoyed with those articles because, while I suppose it comforts me that Reese Witherspoon and Chrissy Teigen have sleepless nights and never stop worrying, I resent a little bit the fact that the only moms who get the spotlight are people already in the spotlight. Mom Talk – Part 11: 27 Ordinary Every Day Moms Who Inspire Me and Will Inspire You Today and Every Day.

This is one of those questions that reveals my interviewer bias. Or if it doesn’t reveal it let me reveal it to you now: to me, far and away the most impressive thing I’ve ever done is give birth to 4 children and keep them not only alive but thriving. Sammy was 10 pounds at birth – just saying. When I asked this question in my interviews some moms questioned: personally or professionally? Some wondered— is this related to motherhood? Some flat out couldn’t think of anything. I just assumed every mother thought being a mother was the most impressive thing. Not necessarily. Some yes. What about the others?

Moms are impressed with: their professional accomplishments, growing and birthing children, overcoming personality flaws, cooking a meal that makes the kids happy, community involvement, volunteer work, achieving a balance between personal and professional lives— the feeling of doing it all, surpassing expectations and achieving more than would have been expected, athletic accomplishments, mothering, explaining things so their kids understand, making a sacrifice for benefit of the family, committing to a partner, raising good humans, surviving and thriving through hardship and heartache, becoming less selfish, graduating college, making a difference in people’s lives, managing the day-to-day, and postpartum sex.

The answers:

1. In life? The most impressive? I don’t know. How does one answer that? How would you answer that? That I don’t know.

2. On a personal scale or professional? So through work I was doing some really sexy projects and it was a lot of fun, got international coverage. It was really— it was tiring but amazing to do and amazing to see that I figured out those loopholes to do this and it was fulfilling in a way. But all of that— last year my daughter had some health problems and we didn’t know what it was for 9 months. And her lips were turning blue, she wasn’t breathing, she was vomiting. Part of that was happening in the middle of the night and I sort of had a revelation that none of my accomplishments were worth it; none of my professional accomplishments were worth it, and I didn’t care. And so I gave that up. Because I was juggling two businesses at once and they were both successful; I had the production consulting and I had the law practice and it wasn’t— production wasn’t worth it. Law isn’t worth it either but Mama has to pay the bills. So I just cut it out and I honestly haven’t really looked back. I looked back once or twice and I sort of miss it but I don’t at all and just had to move forward. So professional accomplishments, while they’re great, they don’t mean that much to me anymore after all that. And thankfully we figured out sort of what it was and we have a plan now and the symptoms have gone away and she’s been cleared by Children’s Hospital. It was a terrifying 9 months. It was terrible. And no one really understood. I didn’t really let people in. I isolated myself. It was a really bad time all around.

3. Other than grow two children in my body? That’s impressive to me. I know trillions and trillions of women have done this over the years but I still think it’s frickin’ crazy. So that’s one thing— two things because I have two kids— I’m so like I can’t believe this child came out of my body and that I grew it in my body. I know that’s how it’s supposed to be but it just still shocks me. What’s the most impressive thing I’ve ever done? Honestly I don’t think there’s any singular impressive thing that I’ve ever done. There’s nothing that I’ve done that impresses me. I’ll let you know in a few years.

Overcoming my own personality flaws has impressed me. That’s more to do with business than anything else but, you know, speaking in public, for example, is something that is just not my personality; it is not something I used to do. I used to get petrified even to get up and make a toast at a dinner table and now I can do it with ease. That was something that I kind of overcame and I’m definitely impressed with myself. But I’m equally impressed with myself I put dinner on the table and one of my kids says, “this was delicious, it’s the best thing I’ve ever eaten” and I’m like, oh my God I can’t believe I cooked a meal that my kids say is really good. When they’re like, “this is delicious, I love this!” That makes me feel so good. I’m like oh my God they liked something I cooked— that’s amazing!

4. Is this related to motherhood? That is a super hard question for me to answer because I’m not used to talking in those terms. It’s so interesting. So, impressive to other people I feel like motherhood gets taken for granted, right? Like that’s sort of a drumbeat background thing. I think to the external world my work for the synagogue and helping kids go to school for less money and getting involved in the community and reducing barriers for them maybe. I get the most feedback for that.

My kids are my most fundamental achievements— that’s for sure. Impressive I think is external. To me the word impressive— I mean the implication— is how the rest of the world sees it.

I feel like motherhood is undervalued and I feel like volunteer work is undervalued and I feel like volunteer work is fundamental to shaping society. Life and children and family are a combination of momentum, evolution and design and it’s where we apply our energy that we can shape and lend momentum to the things that are important to us.

For sure my kids are the most important. Stemming from that, my synagogue volunteer work. Being president and turning around an organization— a community that is important to me— from financial catastrophe to regular non-profit status where it’s never easy but we are doing pretty well towards achieving a pretty important mission— I feel really proud of that. Partly in the context of my kids but partly in the context of everybody’s kids. I want a really strong community in a world where on a scary front antisemitism is growing and on a positive front what makes our life enriching and has meaning and community— whether or not you believe in God whatever your theological perspective— community is a part of that. Community is important. When my kids were little in the preschool I loved that school. It was the greatest. When my kids were in middle school I thought: wow the preschool was great! What they really need right now is those preschool friends that we’ve invested in to walk into this building and feel safe and secure no matter what they’re wearing because middle school’s rough man— emotionally rough— so a community that carries and nurtures, you know, the people where, you know, we picked our family and our friends as a supplement. So I feel really proud of helping that thrive.

5. I mean, I wouldn’t really call myself impressive. But I would say something that, I think rolling into the happiness question, what gives me happiness and what makes me feel fulfilled and whether it’s impressive to other people or not is sort of impressive to me because it’s what’s important to me is sort of that balance that I was alluding to. So when it’s days when I really feel like I have been doing a great job at work and I’m really around for the kids or it’s everyone just getting along and I’m also still able to catch up with friends and see them for dinner and be really on top of my personal emails and make dinner for a friend who just had a baby and just, like, do all of these different things that are all really important aspects of my life, I think that’s where I feel I’m most impressive to myself because I’m sort of, like, doing it all. So yeah, that’s what I would say.

6. Shit. Impressive. I don’t think anything I’ve done is impressive. I think if I tell my story to people about how I grew up and where I ended up I think that’s impressive to other people. I don’t think I did anything extraordinary to get here. My parents immigrated to this country when I was 5 and my sister was 9. Lived in jersey city with my grandparents in a three bedroom apartment for my grandparents, my parents and me and my sister. Went to public schools. I did go to Catholic high school— my parents did work very hard to send my sister and I to private school— but grew up in the middle of Jersey City. Dealt with the things that kids in Jersey City dealt with and, you know, went to Rutgers. Went to regular college. And now, like I said, I’m living in this town and we are comfortable and, again, I haven’t done anything outside— I landed at Cisco as an engineer. Statistics would tell you that is not very likely but I never saw it that way. I just sort of lived my life and did what I thought was interesting and this is where I ended up. So I don’t think there’s anything impressive I’ve ever done except just ignore the world and keep going, keep moving forward.

8. Anything? Like I never thought I— I’m not an athletic person but I’m into this it’s called Orange Fitness Theory or something. So I started that a year ago. It’s just a mom friend encourage me to go so I tried it out. It’s pretty intense. It’s an hour class. It’s row, treadmill, and weight combined and you work out; your heart rate goes up it’s orange because your heart rate goes up to a range; it keeps orange or even red so that you burn more calories so that in an hour I can burn 400, 500 sometimes— that’s a lot for me. At the beginning I never thought that I could last; I thought this is a month thing. But then I just kept going back so I’ve been doing twice a week for more than a year now. So because I’m doing that, I’m eating healthier, pay attention to what I eat so I think overall I’m healthier as well and that helps you. The more workout you do the more energetic you are. Before I never realized that. I’m so tired! How can I go work out? I don’t get these women probably ran 2 miles, 3 miles every day and now I get it! Because once you’re into this mood or this momentum or this routine you keep going back. I never know I could do this. I don’t think I ever miss a class. And that also helped me doing tennis because it’s not just technique; you need the strength, the stamina, because you need to run. How do you last an hour running around? This helps. So it helps me better at tennis as well. It helps me enjoy it. And now I get it, like, before— I’m Chinese— so sports is not a big thing for us— stereotype again— but now I get it because, like, it bring so much joy to you and energy and joy so I get it now. I get it when I’m 37 but at least I get it now.

9. I always think about, well, who thinks it’s impressive? I think my family would say just being a mom. That’s what my husband would say— just being able to balance everything. He always says that I do it all and that I’m always improving. I always try to improve so I’m never complacent. I always am looking for the next improvement and I think that’s impressive.

10. Oh my gosh, as a mom? The most impressive thing I’ve ever done. That’s hard; that’s a good question. What have I done that’s impressive. I don’t know. I don’t feel like I’ve done anything impressive. I’m thinking. Impressive. Ah, I know. So when I try to explain to my son what happened to the moon when the moon was first formed the way that it hit Earth. It was called Theia. I was explaining to him a scientific idea because sometimes we watch videos together and we were watching a video of how the Earth was first formed and he wasn’t fully understanding it. So I broke it down for him and he liked the way I explained it to him; I was trying to tell him: first it crashed into the Earth and he was like, “why did it crash into the Earth?” And I try to explain to him about gravity. And I think he’s starting to understand what these things mean. And he’s like, “what is gravity?” Well when the ball rolls down the hill you can see the force of gravity. So he was starting to get it. He liked that we were talking about it. His eyes lit up because it’s something that he really enjoys thinking about. So I think I felt satisfied at that moment because it was the first time that I explained something to him scientifically that I felt like he understood. Normally if he doesn’t understand he would ask more questions or say I don’t get it. I think he understood how I explained it and I thought, okay, he got it. Great. So that was kind of cool.

What else? Sometimes he asks me to draw things that I don’t think I can draw. And I’m like, I can’t draw this 3-D dinosaur that you want me to draw. Then I started drawing it and that came out pretty well, like you could identify it. I was like, “do you know what it is?” he was like, “yeah, I get it, it’s a dinosaur.” I’m like, “do you like it?” “Yes.” I’m like, okay solved. Problem solved.

Other things are, sometimes we get compliments from other people when they see us explaining things to him. Little moments and I don’t think it’s impressive, per se, but it’s nice to get that positive feedback. I was once explaining to my son why it’s important to wash his hands and what germs are and it’s important to use the lacing your hands method and that kind of thing and one lady came up to us when we were in Savannah, Georgia and she said, “wow, I can’t believe you take the time to explain that to him.” So she seemed to like that and I thought to myself, most moms probably do that, but it was nice that she acknowledged that. It was one of those moments where you thought, maybe I’m getting better. Maybe I’m on the right track. So those are my moments, my little moments.

11. I put my very high-flying career back to be with my children. It was very, very, very hard. But I really had to sit down multiple days just all by myself to figure this out that: is this the right thing? And initially I kept on feeling: it’s not the right thing for me. I put in so many years of education. But then I just was not happy that I did not have enough time for my kids. And I was like, you know what, it was very hard but I just think it was one of the best things I have done for myself and my family. But more for myself than my family I would think.

12. Mom: School was easy. Motherhood was hard. I would say motherhood. That’s the most impressive thing for me because school came easy and that all went fine but I think motherhood. Motherhood is hard.

Daughter: I would second that in terms of— I don’t think there’s any one thing that I feel particularly proud of. And I don’t think I’ve necessarily handled early motherhood with all of the grace and strength that one might hope for. But more than I thought. More than I suspected. Like the day after he was born I thought: I’m not gonna make it; this isn’t gonna work. So I think— I don’t know. I think that I’ve had a baby that people say seems happy and that I also had to fill out my third year tenure statement while I was, like, a few weeks out. I was like, hand him over to mom for two hours. That I was still able to do those things. Not necessarily as well as I could have before and maybe I wasn’t quite as in tune a mother because I was doing those other things but the fact that I tried to do everything and he still seems okay. Statement turned out fine.

Being able to build a life— that I’m starting to build that life that brings in the things that I care about and the people I care about is what I’m most proud of. But it’s still a work in progress. And some days I think I’m just not doing either and other days I wake up with more of a positive attitude and I think: I’m doing it! I’m doing it. He took a nap on me, then I gave him to his dad and I wrote those three emails and that’s what I did.

13. You’re saying in general—

I think the most impressive thing I’ve ever done is— I think it’s committing to my relationship with my husband. Just to choose— like I said I’m a pretty type A person so I feel like I’ve had other more impressive accolades. I’m ambitious and I want to achieve things. But truthfully the hardest thing for me is that choice to every day get up and show love to someone in whatever form that needs to take for that day and to choose to do that over and over and over again as you both evolve as people. Being able to do that probably for me is the most impressive.

14. Gosh I don’t know. I don’t know that it’s the most impressive thing but I think it was really difficult when my dad was sick trying to be there for my mom, my brother and also raise children and have a spouse. I think going through a difficult time like that was super challenging and somehow everyone was still okay in the long run if that makes sense. I don’t know, I think getting to the other side of that was really big.

15. I think it’s in the future because it’s not yet. The most impressive thing I’ve ever done. Like as a parent or in general? I mean I guess you could say the most impressive thing I’ve ever done is have kids but it’s not that it’s that impressive; I mean, you have sex and then you have a baby so it’s kind of amazing that that’s how it works. For some people. For some people it’s different.

I think if my kids wind up being well-adjusted good citizens of the world I’ll feel really good about that. I just realized I don’t have full control over that. I don’t know. The balance of running a business, starting it, and then having a family and trying to keep all the balls in the air? But I don’t know if that’s impressive as much as literally what’s needed for survival. I don’t know. I’d have to give that some thought.

16. I would say the most impressive thing that I’ve ever done would probably also be the hardest points in my life and there were two. One was when I was 19 and my dad died very suddenly. I think people can take adversity and sadness and grief and shock and they can do one of two things: they can face it and overcome it or they can succumb to it and just let it drag them down and use it as an excuse. I sort of just was like, okay, this is my new reality and so, you know, I finished college and I was like, I’m gonna go for my Master’s. And I worked full time, I went to school, and I put myself through two Master’s programs. I wasn’t handed anything. I had to work and earn for every single thing that I have. And I think that that shapes you. It makes you stronger and it makes you— you are hungry— I was hungry. I wanted to do it and I like doing things myself because I like the way I feel when I do things for myself. What was the question again?

So that was one. The second one has to do with this little guy [her dog]. Back in 2011 I just wasn’t feeling right. I went to the doctor and they were like, “oh, you’re anxious you probably need a Xanax.” And I was like, “no, I’m not anxious. I’m anxious because I’m telling you that I don’t feel well and you’re not hearing what I’m saying.” So I was saying that my heart was pounding. It was beating really fast and I wasn’t exercising. They said, “oh, you’re probably having a panic attack” and I said – no. So I said, “listen, here’s what we’re going to do— give me a Holter monitor and let’s just see. What do you have to lose? Give it to me.” I had to advocate for myself and speak up on my behalf. Long story short, I did have a heart condition called SVT where the electricity in your heart— everybody has a pathway that regulates how many times your heart beats in a minute. My heart had an extra pathway so that when the electricity took the wrong path my heart would speed up and race. Even if I was sitting on the couch my heart rate would get up to like 190. And it feels weird. And it sort of messes with you because it was right when I was like, you know, thinking we were going to start to have a family and like, can I have kids? Should I divorce my husband so he can go meet somebody else so that he can have kids?

So I went through it. One procedure was unsuccessful; they couldn’t do it. And I was like I’m not going to be on medicine for the rest of my life. Understand that I am a big ball of puss: needles, everything freaks me out. And I think a lot of it has to do with my dad dying very suddenly, like, I’m a little bit of a hypochondriac. And I think it stems from losing him suddenly. But I found another doctor and I went to him and he’s like I can fix you and I’m like let’s go. I’ve got shit to do, I want to have kids, I want to get back to me. He fixed me. I went in cold turkey. No sedatives, nothing, up— like up— in the OR, like, they put two catheters up your groin, and they basically put this thing on your heart and they flick it. I couldn’t believe I was doing it; I was like oh my God I’m such a badass. But he fixed it. And that got me— I was like if I can do that, I’m pretty good.

So it relates to my dog because when I first got sick after the first time they couldn’t ablate me successfully my husband got me a dog. And this is him— and he is my little buddy. He makes me feel better. So I would say those are the two things.

My dad had an infection that got into his blood stream and he died of septic shock. My dad was someone who never went to the doctor. I saw him go to the doctor two days before he died. And they told him that he just probably had an ear infection that’s why he was dizzy. I wish sometimes— when I was in my procedure I remember I was like— Dad, you gotta come down and do me a solid. I was like get me through this, push me through it, give the doctor strength. I’m tired of being scared all the time that I’m going to have an episode. I’m angry a little bit sometimes because he should have gone to the doctor. He missed a lot. I had just graduated from high school so I didn’t even start my life, really. He just missed a lot. But, you know, it is what it is. I think he’s here. I think he sees stuff or that he’s aware. You have to have that little inkling of somehow— It shaped who I am though.

What happened to me in my childhood or my life that made me face it and not succumb to it? That’s something I think about when I raise my kids. They have it a little differently than I had it. I was a little hungrier. I didn’t live in a big house. We had a nice apartment; it was an apartment. We weren’t rich by any stretch of the means but I was happy and I never thought about stuff like that.

I want my kids to have character. I don’t want them to think that everything just comes to them. I want them to see that other kids don’t have stuff. Because you have a nice room full of— you have a playroom. I didn’t have a fucking playroom. I had a couple of dolls, some board games and that was it. If I had ever said I don’t want to play with this anymore my mother would have chucked that shit in the garbage and been like, okay! Sometimes I’m a little— I don’t want to say ghetto or tough with them— but I threw away one of their toys once because she was like “I don’t want that” And I was like “garbage.” And she was shocked. Yeah. There are kids that don’t have toys to play with or don’t have a snack to eat, or clothes or a book to read, or whatever the case is. I want them to understand the world is not rainbows and butterflies, but at what age do you teach that? My mom’s like, well maybe wait a little while. Because it builds character. It’s going to build your character. But I don’t know how to teach that. Do you have to live it in order to understand it? My kids have a fucking pool in our yard. You know what I mean? You’re lucky, right? They do chores. I’m like, “make your bed.” My older daughter is like I don’t know how. And I’m like, “no problem, I’ll help you.” The playroom’s a mess. When they come home they’re going to clean it. Because if they don’t, I’m going to grab a garbage bag. You’re going to learn. I really think about that a lot. They’re not living it. And I think that you learn things through experience.

17. I should say the children. But I don’t know. That’s a really great question. I’m really proud of the fact that I worked my whole life to get a college scholarship to FSU to play soccer. But I mean if I really want to say impressive— that I’m a mom right now. It’s still— like I said— when I walk through the city I’m like, I can’t even believe sometimes that I’m not just thinking of myself. I thought about myself a lot. I’m not a super selfless person. I mean I am with friends but I’m pretty self-focused and now that I’m not so self-focused it’s definitely, I guess, impressive that I’m more focused on two other people. I have no big feat.

18. Hm. Well obviously just physically birthing a child is a miraculous and intense event that if somebody asked me if I would be able to do it before I did it I would say no. And I only had that experience once; I’ve heard from other people it gets a little better over time. Becoming a mom was definitely one of them. I don’t feel like I have any other huge momentous accomplishments. There are things in my life I derive pleasure from, there are things I think I’m good at but motherhood is probably the most important thing I think I’ve done.

19. Wow. That’s so interesting. What is the most impressive thing that I have ever done? I’m a girl from the Bronx with awesome parents and very humble beginnings and I do think it’s pretty impressive how my parents’ upbringing have let me to where I am because things could have gone very wrong very many a day. Our building was nice but the neighborhood was not the greatest. It was rough. It was rough, you know? There weren’t those expectations. They don’t expect where I come from— the fact that I went to private school— everybody teased me and called me uppity. It just was not the expectation to rise and to— even just to become a homeowner, to go to college. But those were my parents’ goals. To me, the most impressive thing I’ve done for my family was to be a college graduate. My mother went but she went after she already had children and they wanted me to go. That’s not the way that you should go but they wanted me not to struggle. So my family, the most impressive thing I think, which is probably something that’s very simple for others but it wasn’t for my family at all was to go to school on time and graduate.

And for myself— probably my career. I’ve done a lot of good things in my career. While they’re small things for some people, I know that there’s a lot of children out there in the world today that will remember me, you know? My homeless kids, I got people to donate money to take them on a trip to Sesame Place and they were just so grateful and so happy. I changed that homeless shelter around so that my kids were ready when they went to school. Because back then in NYC you didn’t have to go to school till first grade. So they didn’t have to go to Kindergarten. So a lot of them were going to first grade and just didn’t know anything. They didn’t know their ABCs yet and they were just already behind. So we had an on-site childcare and I worked with them to make sure that these kids knew something. I told the parents: bring those children down. If they didn’t bring the children down I sent the workers up to get them. I don’t care if the kid’s in their pajamas, bring them down and let them learn. So I feel like there’s a lot of families out there that feel strengthened from my work and I’m very proud of that. I want to make a difference if you can. I want to give them what I had. And a lot of people just don’t know. They don’t have the information. If New York City says you don’t have to send your kids to school till first grade then, okay, I’m a 21 year old mother; I’ll send them in first grade. They don’t know. So things have changed since then and now they have a Pre-K 3 and they can start going from 3 years old but before that it wasn’t. Personally that’s what I’m most proud of. Those little things.

20. Raising two incredible children who I just adore and love with every ounce of who I am.

21. Like besides this? I do feel like this business is a big deal for me and it feels in many ways like my first child. And they feel like— obviously I love him more than I love my business— but it feels like a similar life accomplishment.

22. I can’t think of anything.

23. [No response.]

24. As a mom? Or like before? I don’t know that there’s a specific instance that comes to mind. There must be something where I’m like that was awesome. In my head there’s some sports-related things that I was like, that was really great. But, like, that’s not the most impressive thing I’ve ever done. I think of it like a specific time or instance where I did something that I felt was, like, above and beyond or that came naturally to me that was, like, other people wouldn’t necessarily have done it. Or like it almost feels like a defining moment. When you say what’s the most impressive thing. If it were like an early promotion or saving someone or I’m not sure. What do other people say?

I don’t know. The first thing that comes to mind is like, what are my characteristics that define me? When have I displayed that in a major way? My first thoughts are like when have I stood up for other people when they haven’t stood up for themselves or when have they needed help and I was there? But those are small moments that weren’t small for me and them but small in that, like, those are more everyday things. The first thing that came to mind, and this wasn’t even that impressive, but like my daughter got— one of the hardest days I ever had— she is really good at the doctor. She loves it. She talks about shots and vaccines all the time. It’s not a big deal. And she had all these splinters and she lost it. She was in the doctor’s office and they had to take them out and she’s screaming and they had to put her in the papoose and it was terrible and I came home and I was so drained. I had to look away from her so she couldn’t see that I was crying because I was like, this is terrible this is everything you don’t want to be happening. So in my own head it’s impressive that I was able to get through that, but like, not really because 1. You don’t have a choice and 2. It had to happen and lots of moms have to do that all the time so it’s not particularly impressive; but that was something that came to mind so it must have been something that made a big impression on me.

I think of it as something that makes you stand out in a way like who you are and— not better— just everyone has their strengths so, like, this is where you’re excelling. So in my head the way that I excel is my ability to be there for other people so I’m trying to think of a time when I was really there for someone else but a lot of those are smaller day-to-day things. I don’t know. I’d have to think about it. I’m sure there’s something.

This isn’t impressive to me but my husband travels a lot and it’s fine but then I have to maintain two kids and two dogs and that’s not that big a deal to me because this is my life. But we were at my parents’ beach house and I didn’t bring the dogs and one of the kids was like why didn’t you bring them and I was like well your mom and dad asked me not to and their mom was like, “well it’s a lot for your aunt to handle two kids and two dogs” and I was like, “that is my life: two kids and two dogs.” Maybe it’s a lot but I don’t think it’s a big deal so maybe that’s what’s impressive: my ability to manage the day-to-day without feeling super overwhelmed all the time. So maybe that’s it: just like, I’m impressed with my own ability to manage our day-to-day without feeling overwhelmed. But I don’t think that’s the most impressive thing I’ve ever done. That’s just me figuring out life. This is like doing life.

25. I mean I would say having these two kids. That and the postpartum sex after 6 weeks because you’re taking one for the team there’s just no doubt about it. There’s just no winners there. Well your husband— your partner’s the winner. But definitely having the kids.

After my first— she was born in early November. So right around Christmastime was like the 6 weeks and I was like, alright merry Christmas here we go let’s try it. And it was horrible. And I didn’t think it was going to be that bad because I had a C-section. I was like oh, it’ll be fine. It was horrible. I felt like worse than being a virgin again. I was like take it out. Take it out. I don’t know what we need to move this process forward but this is horrible. And it took us a few months for me to feel like I wasn’t sacrificing myself. Not to be too graphic.

26. As a mother? Hm. I don’t know. That’s an interesting question. I don’t think I’m a particularly impressive person. This is going to sound like nothing. It really isn’t much but I would say managed— I don’t know— sometimes I think keeping two children alive is impressive. So I’ll go with that. Keeping two children healthy, happy and alive and also managing without losing my mind when I was 9 months pregnant with a 4 year old when my husband was in the hospital with his appendectomy. Not like a marathon or anything but, you know. That’s where my mind goes. 

27. Giving birth. I’ll tell you a funny story: I remember when they wheeled me out of the delivery room with my first and I looked around and I thought to myself: everyone here was born. Somebody had to go through this for every person walking on the Earth. I was astounded. 

Coming up: Mom Talk – Part 12: What do you want most?

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Mom Talk – Part 7

My children and dogs will not leave me alone so there is no audio. Maybe I can find time later so you can listen while you sew face masks, supervise homework, cry silently in your room, walk around the block, drink a glass of wine, lift weights.

Question: How has motherhood changed you?

I always felt that I was put on this Earth to be a mother. Now I am a mother but I couldn’t have known how I would be a mother; and I’m not always the mother I want to be. Things have changed drastically since I began writing these words several months ago. I am certainly not the quarantine mother I’d like to be. I’d love to be patient, forgiving, easy-going, indulgent. I’d love to come up with engaging crafts that entertain 4 age groups and be an effective teacher and be generous with affection. I’d love to get that balance of doing the things that are expected and required so my kids don’t fall behind in school and so that they continue to learn and use their brains for academic work and of doing the things that are a little rebellious so that my kids have special adventures and create once in a lifetime memories that will stick with them forever. I’m afraid the memories they’ll have are of an angry mother screaming that they can’t have seconds of waffles. And yes I should give myself a break and not put so much pressure on myself and no I don’t think that’s really all they’ll remember. But I’ll tell you what being a mother didn’t change about me— my desire to do things 100% perfectly with no mistakes the first time.

Motherhood didn’t change certain fundamental parts of me— I’m a little weird. Now I’m a weird mother. I’m pretty creative and so I channel that into birthday parties. I’ve always tried to use humor to manage the ups and downs of daily life and kids create thousands of ups and downs and so I’m constantly trying to be funny. But not always successfully. Which goes back to the weird thing.

So how did motherhood change me? Well, in fulfilling this ultimate overarching purpose, it inevitably altered significant parts of me that made me, me: the way I dress (more yoga pants) the way I feel about myself and my body (like I’m an elephant stuffed into yoga pants), the kinds of food I eat (more muffins, more coffee, more bagels) and the amount of time I am able to spend writing or even just self-reflecting (still lots of time to self-reflect – maybe more – like when I’m driving around with a sleeping child or shuttling someone somewhere in rush hour or sitting in the pick up line at 2:30 for a 3:15 dismissal and I’m still the 10th car in line. But less time to write unless I’m neglecting a thousand other things.)

I feel like if I had to really define the big change it is that my perspective has changed. I’ve been a girl and a teenager and a young adult and a student and an intern and a friend and a sister and a daughter and a wife. And now I’m a mother. And then becoming a mother for the second time changed me. And again the third time. And again the fourth time. Each time I brought a baby into this world it changed me. I assume I’ll keep changing as the stages of motherhood move along. I’ll never be who I was before. Now that I see life as a mother I can’t unsee it. It sort of changes everything.

Every mom I spoke to acknowledged that motherhood has changed them in big ways. In some ways the moms agree: there’s a general consensus that becoming a mother makes you more empathetic, tolerant, forgiving, and understanding of fellow moms and humans in general. Motherhood makes moms self-reflective and gives them a sense of personal growth. Some moms feel their standards have decreased (personally, now that we’re all in isolation, my standards have disappeared entirely). Many moms feel like they are so much less focused on “trivial bullshit.”

But this question also highlights some of the ways in which moms are different. And they’re different because women are different and all women can become moms and most do. We start off as different human beings with different lives and different personalities and different perspectives. Some were older mothers, some younger. Some work, some don’t. Some have siblings, some don’t. Some have lost a parent, some haven’t. Some come from divorced parents, some don’t. Some were born in this country, some weren’t. Some speak English as a first language, some don’t. So motherhood changes women in different ways. Some moms feel less self-centered and some feel more. Some moms feel more patient and some feel less. Some moms feel more of a balance in terms of work and family and some moms feel like having kids altered— and lessened— their career motivation entirely.

Let’s get into it.

The answers:

1. I’m less focused on myself I guess. Pretty lame.

2. It made me look at my own childhood and realize that, um, in a way, I know I started out by saying that motherhood is fucking hard but in a way motherhood and protecting your child is easy. It just comes naturally and it makes me look at my own childhood and it actually might make me more resentful toward my own mother because of that. Because it’s— it’s— it’s just easy to protect. Why wouldn’t I?

3. Other than my body? More tired. I feel like I have so much less time to do the things that I really want to do. And I feel constantly pulled in a direction that is the selfless direction and I want to be selfish and I’m like, no I can’t justify getting a massage at 9:30 on a Friday morning or God forbid a Saturday. And I think men aren’t like that. My husband has no problem going to the gym on a Saturday morning and I commend him for that. I would feel guilty. And there’s nothing wrong with it, that’s the thing. I just feel guilty. I feel like I shouldn’t be doing those things when it’s my time with the kids. So, you know, there’s that. How has it changed me? It’s made me incredibly more patient because when your first kid is not well you just develop a level of appreciation and patience for these kids that I definitely wouldn’t have had otherwise. Even though he’s a challenge – like a lot of kids are – I’m a lot more patient with him.

4. As a spouse, I became more proscriptive. I became more directive and more in charge, whereas we were pretty good partners before-hand. Like, whoever cooked the other would clean; we really made an attempt to do the whole thing and we both had incomes and we both— it wasn’t perfect— but then it became much less even once the kids came. Much less even when they were babies. Sure I was nursing but, even so, in every which way, and it’s sort of still even though the kids are bigger.

5. I think it’s made me a lot more empathetic to others like strangers, friends, everyone, mostly moms I would say just given the context and situations you see. Before I was a mom I would snark at moms on the airplane that had crying kids like— control your kid— and then I’m a mom and I think that was the most rude thing I could have ever done. It’s little things like that. It’s big things like, once you go through things that are hard for you as a mom, when you realize someone else probably went through it too, there’s just that level of understanding. So I would definitely say empathy and a level of maturity in terms of no judgments and no gossiping— things that still take place all the time in mom groups and my friends and me and whatever. But I’ve noticed myself really trying to take a step back from that kind of stuff because it shouldn’t— we’re moms— we’re responsible for other little people why are we talking to other moms that are going through the same thing? It’s that level of empathy and— I don’t want to say maturity because I dont think I’m mature— but understanding maybe.

6. I was always very afraid of failure I was not a big risk taker and it isolated me from people. I think it isolated me from growing as a person. When I had kids it forced me to realize that I really needed to grow in order to be a good mother to my kids so I had to put all that away and I had to get rid of the fear of failure and get rid of the fear of people knowing too much about me or getting too deeply imbedded in my life in order to be a good mother. I mean my mom and I have never been this close and we are this close now because she is a primary caretaker of my children. So they really forced me to just bear it all.

7. My mom will tell me that I can no longer sit still; I think that’s probably fair. I was a pretty relaxed individual for my life. When I first started work I remember having my cup of tea in peace, watching the news, reading the paper, making my way in just kind of going with the flow. I was never a big planner. I was always pretty relaxed, happy to go with the flow, happy to be spontaneous. And I’m not like that at all. And I actually can’t visualize what it’s like to be that kind of a working mother. I’m sure there’s a way; I just haven’t discovered it. I feel like I’m constantly on the move and there’s always a hundred things going through my mind— things I have to do— especially during the school year. Did I send in the 25 cents for the lemonade sale? Or, like, was I supposed to bake cupcakes? Or did I get that document out at work? And so I feel like there’s always— or like little things— do their clothes fit? Do they know how to ride a bike yet? Did I miss that boat? I’ve missed so many boats.

Like that day of the roller skating party I was like I’m just gonna go ahead and say my kids have never been roller skating— we definitely missed that boat. It didn’t come up on my top 10 list of things to do on a Saturday. They’re gonna be holding on to the wall.

8. First thing came into my mind is I used to have really bad temper from time to time, literally you can’t even control, bad anger management. My husband knows that I don’t really show that to anyone else but people who are really close with me know that, which is a bad thing for my husband. But I don’t know if it could be also my husband help me change that it’s just hurting people it’s not helpful. But having kids also help me. Even though I have moments from time to time— feeling ahhhhh! how do I handle this? How do I do this? But then the anger seems to go away. I’m not saying it never comes back but it just change me. I don’t know why. It’s the love, it’s the care, I don’t know why. And then it change me also that I want to be a better person but the kids help me realize I really need to focus on myself instead of focusing on them. Of course I need to spend quality time with them but I need to have something keeping me busy, have a career, whatever it is— have a passion— so that they can see, they can learn from me to find their own passion. I think that’s important. Like I said it took me 37 years to find my passion, who knows how long it will take them but I’ll just keep encouraging them. If I can do that maybe they can too.

9. I’ve become more confident. I think you become more confident as a woman. You’re not as scared— even in my work life— if I can get the mom life it gives me confidence that extends to my work life, my personal life.

10. You know, I don’t sweat the small stuff anymore. I work at a job where there’s a lot of petty things that happen, like all fields, and when I was pre-child I used to find myself getting upset with office politics, with things that were probably— now I would consider to be minutiae. And it shrinks your perception of things to worry about. You have to do a lot of growing up very quickly when you become a mother. You realize the difference between a real problem and what is pretty much an imaginary problem and you learn to let the little things go and don’t sweat the small stuff. And I think that’s so important because you have to hold on to your sanity. And there’s plenty of things that come up in life, especially with a child, that are very important and that you need to be alert and to be aware and you want to keep your optimal self for your child and you want to set an example and you don’t want to worry about little things. Because that’s just minutiae.

I think it’s important to expend your energy— fight battles that are worth fighting— and I try to talk to my son about that too. Because otherwise it becomes death by a thousand cuts and that’s silly. So you can’t worry about little things. And I think that you do learn to let a lot of things go when you have a child. I think it makes you more tolerant. I see a lot of the young people I work with now who don’t have kids and aren’t married. They sweat things that I don’t sweat. That’s why I think that’s the difference, one of the differences between being a mom and not. And it’s also nice, too, because it pulls you out of a lot of petty worlds. Even with friends there’s a lot of things that could happen that you could misinterpret or that you can be a lot more sensitive to and take as little slights and you sort of pull back from that and say, you know, let’s not get crazy about little things.

So from the work arena and from the friend arena I think you learn to just roll with things better. And you kind of become a more tolerant person, and a more accepting person, and more patient. I think patience is important. People are too quick to get impatient and I think it has to be the last— you know— I think you have to go through a series of things before you lose your patience. I think you have to hold on to your patience and give the benefit of the doubt and I find myself giving the benefit of the doubt much more than I used to. Much more forgiving. More tolerant.

11. That’s a good question. I was very maternal, I think, to start with. I’ve always loved kids like younger cousins, nephews and nieces. And not very late, but I did have my kids a little later. But I just felt, you know, joy and everything. But I don’t think the feeling of content came in before I became a mother. Like I feel very content now that I have everything, you know, and everything can go wrong with me but I have my two girls and that’s all I need.

12. Mom: Totally. I gave up my career. I just changed. I don’t know if that other woman would even recognize— if the psychologist would even— Every once in awhile she pokes her head out, you know. So totally. It totally changed me. There had to be a core that hasn’t changed, but on the outside I feel it’s different. My life just completely changed.

Daughter: I think toward the end of pregnancy and early, early infancy— I don’t know how to explain this— I felt like a proximity to life and deathness that I’ve never felt before? Like when I was getting ready to have the baby I was working with a doctor and a doula and they were telling me the baby was going to be really big and I started to look up all the things that can go wrong and I would say to the doctor and the doula, “I’m gonna be okay, right? And the baby’s gonna be okay?” And the answer was, “we don’t know. Probably.” And I realized I’d never been so close to all this real, real stuff. That I’d lived mostly in my head for a long time. Then all of a sudden I was like: you’re body’s gonna do something that’s probably miraculous? Or maybe, maybe fatal. And somehow I always thought I was immune to most of those kinds of problems. That most of my problems would be of my own making or in my own head or having to do with social interactions not like— oh you can just try to push a human out of you and you could die— Or to be so sleep-deprived that you feel like you’re living in a dream for the first month. That’s all weird.

And I think that— I don’t know. I’ve just been thinking about this recently that most of my life I only thought about my future in terms of things I could do by myself. I thought about jobs and apartments and friends. I assumed I would get married and I thought I would have kids but I didn’t picture myself in those worlds because I thought, well I can’t really picture that because those are all other people, like who would they be? So I’m not gonna fantasize about a life I can’t control. I can control that I go to school, what I study and then what I become. And so what’s changed is I’m sort of like living— I’ve gone outside the dream blueprint I had. It was like, get married: TBD. Have a baby: fill in the blank. This is all new stuff. I never thought I’d want to read this much about child-rearing and now I read it constantly. I just realize this picture I had of myself was very incomplete. There are parts of myself— things that are vaguely recognizable: my desire to do research, for example, that are the same. But these whole, like, wings of the building of my soul that were just, like, not open. And I had never even thought to go in.

13. I think I’ve been proud that I’ve been able to— I’m a workaholic. I’ve been proud that I’ve been able to designate, like— this is time where I’m not even going to interact with work and that’s really hard for me to do. It’s just not intuitive. I think also it’s forced me to really think through what things are truly consequential and important. He had like two sodas and I said to my husband, “we have to talk about this: what’s going to be our policy on sugary beverages?” And he’s like, “do we really? This is a being who, in a decade, has survived more than most people will experience in a lifetime. Does it really matter if he has two sodas this weekend?” And my very type A personality is like yes! But then I’m like no, you’re right, it doesn’t. It absolutely doesn’t. So I think it’s made me more balanced.

14. I definitely think it makes you tougher; it’s not all about you anymore that’s for sure. I think in a lot of ways, while I did say patience can be more of a challenge on some days, I think overall I’m a more patient person. I also think it makes me reflect on myself a little bit more because before I was like— who cares? You know? But if I find myself being snappy with them or getting angry over something stupid, I really try and think about why I’m reacting that way if that makes sense. So I think it’s changed me in the sense that I try and think about why I react in certain ways that I do and I am also very conscious of the fact that they are learning so much right now at this stage that I have to try and put my best self forward so that they can learn from that. But at the same time I think it’s also okay for them to see weakness and not everything is okay. They’ve seen me cry. They’ve seen me get upset. That kind of stuff.

15. I think it’s made me warmer and fuzzier. This is sort of a silly example but I always speak to children like they’re adults like, “hi, how are you, nice to see you!” and I babysat as a kid and the kids loved me but I don’t know— kids don’t gravitate towards me. My husband is a child magnet and his dad too. They walk by him and he makes a silly noise and all of a sudden they’re, like, climbing on him. I want to be warm with kids, I’ve always liked kids but they’re like, “oh, whatever lady” and I think it’s because my parents spoke to us like we were intelligent beings, which I appreciate as an adult because I feel like they never sort of— t’s not that they were inappropriate about what they talked to us about— but they treated us with the same amount of intellectual capacity as they would speak to another adult. My mom used big words with us and I didn’t know what they meant most of the time and when she described them with another word it was another word I didn’t know. So I feel like that’s part of where it came from. We never got the gushy-wushy roll on the floor type. And I’m not that kind of parent. But now I feel like because I have children I do a better job speaking to children at their level. Not talking down to them.

I also think that warmer and fuzzier— I don’t know— I feel like I’m sweeter than I was before. What else how has it changed me?

I feel like as a parent— and this is one of those penetrating glimpses into the obvious— but because your priorities change so much and the kids are, like, your family and raising them are just the most important thing, I think that my sense of security and stress about things that don’t matter— most things just sort of roll off my back. I’m like, we’re going to figure it out; it’s fine. This is not the most important thing in the world. I’m less, I don’t know, I guess I feel stronger, actually, maybe that’s the word. It’s not that I felt insecure before I just feel stronger now. I feel like I have resolve and ability to take care of anything, which I might have had to some degree before but it’s very clear to me what my priorities are and they will be taken care of and that’s it.

I was going to say something else. I don’t know. I forget.

16. I think my standards, like, the way I’m willing to go out in public has decreased a lot. I was always manicured and hair done and nice outfits and now I’m like dirty t-shirt, old shorts, flip flops, no mani. I think you just— your kids’ happiness makes up for all of that. You just do stuff for your kids. You just live for them and these little moments. Like when I pick them up from camp. Like my older daughter? She loves my husband. When Daddy is around Mommy is like garbage. But when I pick her up she lights up and she’s like, Mommy! She said to me yesterday, “I love Daddy.” And I’m like, “thanks, really?” And she’s like “I do; I love him.” And I’m like, “you don’t love me a little?” She’s like, “no I do.” She struggles with like, she’s like, “I love you both!” And I’m like, “That’s okay! You’re going to love us both for different reasons. Maybe you’re going to love Daddy because he’s going to do the fun stuff with you and you’re going to come to me when you’re older. You’re just going to use us for different— what you need us for.”

So what about me has changed? So my standards of how I’m willing to go out in public. I don’t care about trivial things as much like, if my nails aren’t done. I don’t care. I’d rather go and do my nails at a different time maybe when they’re at school and occupied and not take family time to do that. I just want to be around them more.

17. Well, my patience has grown exponentially because I’m not a patient person at all. And I think I used to be a very competitive person, I mean, playing college soccer. Not with my friends. But like even just playing board games. Like I don’t want to do better than my friends in life but I’ve just had to really learn that I don’t want to be competitive with my children and I see people do it so I just like— I can’t be just halfway competitive so I literally have no competition left inside me at all. One of my biggest traits was competitive and I’ve literally had to just shut it down because I don’t want to compare my kids, I don’t want to be competitive with my kids, I don’t want them to be competitive with each other. And I just don’t want to feel badly. There’s always going to be somebody better than my kids. And it’s one thing when people were better than me because I could either work to be better or— But I can’t ever make them do anything they don’t want to do to be better than anyone else so I just want them to be happy. And I think the only way to do that is the quash the competitiveness.

I feel like being the first to read, the first to walk, the first to crawl. My first was a late crawler. Early walker, late crawler. Early talker. As compared to other people’s kids. I just remember a friend— she was so upset that her kid was a late talker and my son was such an early talker and it really got to her. She was also a college athlete and very competitive and it was like: this is bad. They’re all going to talk and you’re not going to know in three years who talked first who walked first who read first. It doesn’t mean anything but it really got to her. And I remember thinking to myself I just don’t want that situation about anything. This is a very competitive town; there are going to be a lot of kids that do a lot of things better than mine and I don’t want to compare. It’s not even competitive it’s more comparing. Where I felt like I would compare myself to my peers: how I’m doing in life compared to them career-wise and everything and with them I’m like nope. My older son still can’t read as well as he should. He probably should be reading by now but I’m like, he’ll get there. And in a year we won’t even know. It’s not like he’s a bad reader he’s just the kind of kid that if he can’t do something right away he just wants to move on so I know that once he gets it he’ll be fine; he loves to read.

18. I think I’ve become more secure with myself? I used to do a lot more prep before I would go out and see people; I had a lot more time to myself so I had a lot more time to ruminate about how I wanted to be perceived in the world. And once you have kids you just have to get used to being embarrassed pretty frequently and you also don’t want them to pick up on any insecurities that you have. So I’ve tried to kind of force myself to be okay in my own skin as much as I can, especially having a girl. And I do more. I force myself to do more activities than I used to. Whereas I could have spent a whole weekend just reading books, watching TV, lounging with my husband in our pajamas and now that never happens; and it’s not just because we have to go do stuff it’s because I feel like a greater responsibility to be out there in the world.

19. I’ve become more patient and I changed most probably in my career. I was very focused on my career prior to having children. It was about being as successful as I could possibly be. Moving up the corporate ladder. You know I switched careers: I wanted to be a dancer and my dad did not want me to do that. So I was enrolled in a college but I was dancing at night and auditioning and not focused on college at all. It wasn’t until he passed away that I started to focus more in school. And I have this goal in my head: every year I’m going to make $25,000 more than I did the year before and you know, I’m moving I’m shaking. All of that completely changed when I had my daughter. It just became: I want to get home, what time can I get home? The focus became getting her ready for interviews for schools and for someone who used to stay late at work every day, I became a person who wanted to leave as early as possible every day and it really just changed focus for me. And I’m not quite sure yet how I feel about that— if I want to get back into that at some point— sometimes I miss it because now I’m at a job that just gives me a lot of flexibility and I feel like I need that with my two. But I guess at some point I would like to go back to that but I’m not quite ready for that. Maybe when my son is in Kindergarten.

20. I don’t think I truly appreciated how much my kids would look up to me and model their behavior after my own, so being a mother has made me more aware of my own actions and forced me to act in ways that I want my kids to act. I want my kids to feel confident, so I try to exude confidence when I am with them. I want my kids to take pride in their accomplishments, so I take pride in my own accomplishments when talking to them. I want my kids to be thoughtful and caring, so I am thoughtful and caring with them and with others. I want my kids to feel unconditional love, so I make sure to show them unconditional love every single day.

21. I feel like I’m more direct. I just don’t have time to B.S. or sugar-coat anymore especially having my own business. It’s like: I have 5 minutes so if you need to use them, use them wisely. In a loving way but also let’s be direct. And I also think a lot of the— I had a lot of fear when I was pregnant about: who will I be? How is this going to change me? How will I be a business owner? How will I still live my life? Because I think some of my friends and I who hadn’t had kids we would almost be like— someone would have a baby and like— oh there goes that person; it’s all about their baby now. Forget it, their life is totally different. Which it is. But I feel like all that fear was like— like I’m the same. It didn’t matter. But with that, it’s like, more confidence. Like I’m still me and I can do whatever I want. So yeah. I don’t know, I just think that all that worrying about perception and how will it look and what will people think of me— because I had heard that other studio owners in the area— a couple— were like “oh, well she is always at her studio; that’s gonna change.”

I feel like this is kind of a tangent but I feel I’ve met two kinds of moms: there are the moms like yourself and like my good friends who are like, I’ve been there, I remember, I’ve been in your shoes and I have compassion for what you’re going through; and then there’s moms, it’s usually people whose kids are older, but not always, who are like, well I felt that way too but let me tell you— don’t do it that way, you’re just worrying but you need to. It’s like that mean mommy thing which I haven’t interacted with much but I did get a little bit of that from this competitive place of well, now you’re going to get how hard it is and almost, yeah, I had to go through it and so do you. Anyway, this is all just to say I feel like, yeah it’s hard but it doesn’t have to be any specific way. Anyway that was not a clear answer, but yeah.

23. Mi visión de la vida.

24. I think I’m more forgiving and understanding of other people’s experiences. I don’t know if that’s an age thing too, though. But I just care so much less about other stuff. And I think that’s why I’m not interested in going back to work is because someone will talk about deadlines and use like work jargon that I never liked when I did work like hit the ground running and get back to me ASAP and like now when people talk about that I’m like oh my God. If you told me to do these things because we have a deadline and whatever it is I’d be like, alright, well I just don’t care. I think I’m just so much more relaxed about— and I don’t think a lot of people will tell you I’m that relaxed— but like I just don’t care about a lot of things that I used to think I would care about and that were important to me. I like things to be neat, which I said before, because that to me is like order. It’s not like perfect; it doesn’t have to be in it’s spot and whatever but it makes me feel unsettled when it looks like a bomb fell. But other than that— And I like to have the loose plan of what we’re going to do each day so that I know and so that we can actually do those things; because if you don’t then you’re never going to do anything. But in terms of— I just think I’m so much more relaxed. And again maybe this is an age and experience thing but, like, I’m realizing that so much isn’t about me in terms of— like if I was in college or high school and a friend and I had a falling out or someone felt distant I’d be like, what did I do? Why are you mad at me? How do I fix this? Let’s address it immediately and think it was about me personally. And like the older I get— and I think it’s some combination of having less time to think about— that I’m realizing that a lot of it is about that other person and what they’re going through and so here’s how I can actually support them versus like jump to any conclusions. And I think that goes along again with being patient and giving people a lot more grace. But I can’t take out being a mom from that.

I think I’m less judgmental. I don’t even think I realized I was being so judgmental before. That’s really the short of it. And perhaps more self-aware or I think I just care less about what other people are doing. I feel like it took all the things I liked about myself and made it easier for me to step back and work on them somehow. Not work on them but point out: this is working; this isn’t. You have to make a quick decision like, is this how I’m going to be or not? Am I going to be someone who yells? Am I going to be someone who’s miserable because it didn’t work out the way you wanted it to? So I think motherhood has just made me feel more relaxed because I recognize that that works for me way better. We’ll get there and we can do it.

25. It’s both good and bad. Well I feel guilty about it. I don’t care less about my job. I enjoy going to work every day but before, when it was just my husband and I, I would text him— ’cause it’s an hour door to door, my commute. I take the train— he wouldn’t mind either because— not that we were both single, we were married, but we were single entities— I would text him and be like I’m gonna work late; I just wanna get this done. I’ll be home 6:30/7 instead of 5/5:30 and it wouldn’t make a difference. But I always felt like I needed to get the work done. I’d get very stressed out if I didn’t complete my work checklist or the need to impress— oh, she accomplished all of this today. Wow. and now I’m like, no it’s 4:30 I have to get home because I have to pick up my kids and fuck all of you. And that was really freeing for me, too, because it was like I know this can wait until tomorrow. And I think, not that I didn’t put my husband first or I’ve never put my friends first, but I’m really aggressively putting my daughter first. No, I need to pick her up. I want to spend time with her. This is the only time I get. I don’t care if it’s a client call at 4:30: you know I leave at 4:30. Goodbye. I’m not picking up. And that has surprised me a little bit but I’m happy that now I recognize that my work is not everything; it’s not a big deal. It’s just— I feel like I’m not putting this well— but that’s definitely how I’ve changed. I obviously want people at my work to think that I’m doing a good job; I want to keep my job. But like I really don’t care what you think of me. Because there’s always office gossip: so and so didn’t get here until this time and they left at this and yeah, you’re going to gossip about me because yeah, I didn’t get in until late today because my toddler threw a tantrum because she didn’t want to wear that one pair of socks but she picked an identical pair that needed to be put on and I’m leaving at 4:30 because her day care closes soon and I got my work done today. That’s all that matters. I want my girls to be happy. I feel less pressure to impress others. I want them to be impressed.

​26. I think it’s changed me at work. I think I think about situations and the kids that I work with differently.

​27. I shouldn’t have to think so much. It changed me because it opened up a whole new chapter in my life. It changed the important relationships in my life and how I could relate to people that was different in any other way I could relate to people.

Has motherhood changed you? Tell me about it in the comments!

Coming up: Mom Talk – Part 8 – On a typical day what is the range of emotions you feel?

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Mom Talk – Part 5

Once he knew I was going to record myself reading these posts my husband was ON TOP of buying a cool mic that looks really profesh. Here I am about to record this very post. L’Chayim!

Question: What has not come naturally to you as a mother?

The hardest thing for me is letting my kids be kids. I have such high expectations of all of them. I don’t know if it’s because they were all super verbal very young and so I always assumed they could understand way more than they actually could? But it’s also things like— playing with their food, talking too loud, acting crazy, whining, saying Mommy a hundred times. There are dozens of completely normal, completely acceptable things they do every day that I don’t have patience for. But that’s really not fair— I recognize that. They are kids. Their job is to be kids and experience the world. If they can’t do science experiments with their food now, when can they? Wouldn’t I rather they call my name a hundred times per minute than someone else? Mentally, I understand this. But it doesn’t translate to life as much as I wish it would.

I’ll tell you something that really doesn’t come naturally to me and I think it’s strange because I think in my friendships and relationships I’m not this way at all. And I think it’s a big flaw and sometimes I think maybe my mothering licence will be taken away— I don’t know the word exactly. It’s the intersection of compassion and patience. The convergance of selflessness, understanding, tolerance, and maturity. It’s the moment where my kid gets that look on his face like he’s about to blow a gasket and grabs the barstool to throw it on the ground. It’s the moment where my kid refuses to try a bite of banana, the only fruit he’ll eat at all, because today he doesn’t like it but I’m afraid his insides are turning into a Cheez-it. It’s when my daughter struggles with something in her homework and whines or even genuinely cries because she just can’t quite get what she has to do. It’s my little one flat out refusing to stay in bed long after bedtime when I’m exhausted and the day has been interminable and all I want to do is sit on the couch with a glass of wine and some candy and refresh social media a thousand times. It’s all of these times. Why, in those moments, can’t I be the composed and affectionate mother I’ve seen and read about? That’s the mother I wanted to be. I’m not that mother. In those moments I’m sarcastic and obnoxious. The things I say are repellent. The attitude I have towards my sweet, innocent children is childish and immature but I can’t stop. I can’t be different.

Not totally surprisingly, things that came naturally to some moms did not come naturally to others: discipline, organization, playing, transitions, patience, selflessness, affection, balance. For some these qualities are instinctive; for some they are elusive. Some things just don’t come naturally to anyone: breastfeeding, sleep deprivation, knowing the right answer, knowing what to do in a given situation. Breastfeeding might be a biological imperative but most of the moms I know must have missed that TED Talk because— holy shit— it is not intuitive. Maybe newborn babies mircaulously know how to shimmy up to the right spot but about 65,000 other obstacles arise shortly thereafter.

No one seems to know what to do with their exhaustion either. Motherhood— not just early motherhood— is marked by constant sleep deprivation, constant alertness, constant stimulation and p.s. hormones like whoa. Forever. Every mom is completely and utterly debilitatingly drained.

Another universal? No one knows what to do in any given situation. No one knows the right answer. People who write books about the right answer are, as I think we all know, full of shit. That’s why there are 75 million different books about sleep training, introducing solids, bullying, raising sons, raising daugthers, raisings twins, raising siblings. All of it. I think maybe there aren’t any right answers. Something that works for one kid doesn’t work for another child in the same family! It’s a sustained state of uncertainty and when you’re in it it’s overwhelming. I was comforted to know that no one knows what they’re doing— that we’re all essentially winging it.

The answers:

1. Um. How to discipline. How to discipline in a way that is harsh yet from a— I don’t know. How to effectively discipline without instilling fear. Hold on let me Google it.

I almost want to say how to effectively discipline in a positive way where it’s firm but also shows empathy and respect.

I just thought of another one. The hardest part. Sometimes when I parent I sound like my parents and I’m trying not to turn into them.

2. The organization. Organization is not natural to me. I drop the ball constantly it feels like and yeah. But luckily I have a kid that just kind of bounces when Mommy drops the ball and forgets— it’s pajama day at school. I live with constant mom guilt. She’s very good about it. She rolls with it.

3. I think, you know, playing on their level is not something that comes naturally. There are some mothers who genuinely love playing with their kids. They love it. They want to be on the floor with them and they love playing with them and maybe it’s my age. I don’t know. But there’s certain things that I’m really good at. Like, they know I will sit with them for two hours and color and paint and do anything creative. I’ll build with them. But when it comes to, like, getting really, really messy— that doesn’t come naturally to me. And I have two boys. You want to do an art project? You want to build a robot? You come here and we will get that thing going. For hours I can do that stuff. But, you know, when they’re like, “you take the He-man—” not He-man they’re not 40. “You take—” you know, whatever— “you take this and you pretend and you say this—” I don’t enjoy it. I don’t want to sit on the floor. It hurts.

4. What did not come naturally to me was how every new transition— and when they’re babies you know how fast things change— every transition to me was an application of effort, especially with my first. It was an application of like, am I doing this right? Sleeping— getting my daughter to sleep— I did it better the second time around but my daughter had no chance. I had a baby monitor and she would go, “eh, eh, eh” and I would launch to make sure she was alright. She didn’t even have a chance; I had no idea. And then it came time to like, sleep train because I had done it all so badly, and that was, I’m sure, more traumatic for me. But she was wily and she would do things like stick her fingers down her throat to make herself puke and she’d pinch herself to stay awake. I did a little better with my son and then I didn’t use a baby monitor because I’m a light sleeper. He wasn’t three miles away and I kept the door open. If I could tell you the charts we kept for my daughter— it was bananas.

5. Everything. I don’t know if it’s coming naturally or not. I think for me it’s kind of hard to differentiate between situations that are, like, good for your kid versus the easy thing to do. So, for example, summer camp. It would be really easy to keep my daughter at her preschool all summer: she knows it, it’s familiar, it’s easy for me, it’s easy for her, there’s no transition; but is it good for her to probably try somewhere new? I don’t really know. She’s 3. Does she really need new experiences right now? She’s already doing drop off that’s great; she’s gonna be doing longer days. Does she need it? I don’t know. So I feel like that part doesn’t come naturally to me because I don’t really know what’s good for the kid. And I do feel like there are people who have degrees in early education that probably do. There is data that says one way or the other, hey, if you expose your kid to drop off things or new situations earlier in their life, then it’s gonna set them up as transitions keep happening. So— so anyway it’s stuff like that I really struggle with: what’s good for them, what’s not good for them. So she is doing another camp and the one at her preschool to give her another experience. And it’s the same thing with my son. I was only going to send him to the preschool when my daughter was going but is it good for him to probably have a couple more weeks of maybe going someplace without his sister? I don’t know. He’s only 2, but, like, maybe? So maybe I’ll just do it. So it’s stuff like that that I feel like I wrestle with so much and then I do it or don’t do it and then I feel good either way because the outcome is probably fine. And you look at it and you’re like, why did I stress about that so much? It’s an extra two weeks of camp for my son; it doesn’t matter either way! Just make a decision, you know? So I think it’s just stuff like that that I just am always torn on.

6. It still doesn’t. Patience. I have to work very hard to be patient and kids require it. That’s definitely something I work on. Just trying to put myself in their shoes. A little bit. Fighting against the I know what’s right for them because I do know what’s right for them but sometimes there’s room for compromise or a different point of view. And this is not just as a parent this is just in general, like, I think I know the way of the world and you’re going to have to work really hard to convince me otherwise. That’s what comes hard to me. When I’m dealing with children and I’m trying to mold their little lives sometimes I have to have their input too. I know that probably contradicts what I said before but it’s an ongoing rechecking of that balance. Because when they’re very little they don’t know anything but I have to learn that the scales are going to tip. At some point their opinion is going to be important. They are going to be formed, they are going to have personalities, they are going to have things that are important to them and then my will is going to be lower so that’s going to be very hard for me.

One thing. I used to go to this mom group. And I loved her. She was fantastic. I remember she always used to say, “you have the kids you have” something about, “your kids help you heal the parts of you that aren’t healed,” like, “your kids challenge you in ways that heal the things that you didn’t even know were broken” and it’s so true. I’ve always been self-centered. I’ve always had this mentality like me, me, me, me and now I have these two people that are like, “I need you to help me” and are like, “I’m different. I’m different from you and you’re going to have to work with that. And I’m different in a totally different way and you’re going to have to work with that.” It’s just that they’re pulling out of me some of the things that I didn’t know I could have. And I’ll tell you, you can probably tell I’m a huge perfectionist, like, perfectionism is my thing and I’ve always kind of been, like as a perfectionist, you probably know this, one of the downsides of being a perfectionist is you don’t like to ever demonstrate failure or weakness, right? And so that’s the way that I was. And so in my job, in my life I’ve always done really, really well: I’ve always been very smart, top of the class, always excelled but usually only based on my natural talents. Anytime I had to work hard to do something I would be scared that somebody would figure out that I didn’t know what I was doing so I would try to hide that. It was a lot of very weird stuff. Then when I became a mom I was like I can’t fuck this up. I can’t hide here. And that’s kind of what brought about this whole transition into having other people help me, thinking more fluid in terms of where I am now, where I want to be, where my kids are now where I want them to be. They really changed me completely and this thing that she said turned out to be correct. The only way I could have grown as a person in the place where I was when I had kids is by having kids. There was no other way. They’re still teaching me. I can tell. My older daughter is going to continue to challenge me and my younger daughter is going to continue to show me the love in the world. These kids are made to heal all the things that were wrong in me. I know that’s a very self-centered concept but it’s the way that I see it.

7. So I think, you know, when you read these books about parenting and discipline— that sometimes is a little bit harder because, you know, I already feel bad that I’m not around so that time that I have with them I want it to be precious and I want it to be fun and I want it to be filled with love and I know that I have to discipline them and obviously I do but I don’t want that entire time to be defined by this mother who goes to work and comes home to lay down the law. And that’s difficult because, you know, you don’t want them to run riot and so you’ve gotta discipline them but you want them to have this positive bond with the mother that’s not necessarily there the whole day. So that’s probably the challenge. And I think now, too, as my older daughter gets older, it’s funny because now I’m that person on the train who’s reading like, “How to Talk to Your Kids so They’ll Listen” and people are probably thinking: wow, she’s got issues at home because— for that exact reason— because I just want to choose my words so carefully and I want to make sure that the way I react is planned in some ways. The whole thing is very carefully— because I don’t want to come home in a screaming rage being like: why haven’t you done your homework? It’s bath time! It’s bedtime! And for awhile I found myself doing that. I’d get home and then I was overwhelmed because I’m like oh my gosh they’ve gotta do all these things before they get to bed they have to brush their teeth they have to do this and they have to read by themselves and they have to practice the piano and then actually that’s not really the quality time that I dreamed of and hoped for; that’s not how I imagined it to be. So I think that’s the bit that’s taking a bit more work is trying to be structured and firm but still keep that bond and keep that closeness.

8. As a mother. Let me think about that one. Well, like I said, I don’t want to be a Tiger Mom but I feel like I still can’t totally strip myself away from that because you’re influenced by your peers; everybody’s in private school yada yada yada. I think that my daughter’s private school is already a pretty laid-back school compare with some other ones but still you hear people, like, they’re having Kumon already, they have tutors, they have 10 activities going on; those definitely affect you. All of our kids are busy. My daugther is busy too. I just don’t know what is really the right thing. Should I just let her just play all the time? Or should I let her do something so she can figure out what’s her passion? I pick up on tennis again, since I don’t work anymore, and I really loved it because the little improvement you’re making make you excited, so I want her to feel the same thing. She’s not good at it; she’s left-hand so she’s not good at tennis, she’s not good at lacrosse but I hope she can enjoy the little improvement while doing this. So I try not to be, like, show me the result but try to let her enjoy the moment. So hopefully that’s the right thing to do. Again, I don’t know. Everybody is so busy so I schedule everything for her as well. I cannot, you know, not do it. And then also we’re Asian so we’re supposed to— you know stereotype: good at math! Good at reading! So should we at least keep up with everyone to be good at math? Because my friend’s kid— they’re doing multiplication, division already at this age. My kids are not. You know what I mean? It’s the sense of achievement for the mom. It’s not about the kids. Know when to stop. So many moms keep pushing them.

I want to be honest with you, I’m trying to avoid a lot of Chinese moms because they’re just too much about their kids. I like to hang out with my American moms because they have a life of their own. Especially, you know, everybody back at home they are maybe 10 times working hard than your kids and you’re like oh my God how can my daughter compete with them in the future? But then also in back of mind you’re saying: is that healthy? Do you want your kids to study? At this stage, literally, they’re already doing homework to 11PM every night at this age.

I don’t even check on her homework; I don’t know what she has for homework. Chinese homework I have to help her because literally the teacher is behind you and I got an evaluation form saying “Mother needs to improve on involvement.” Okay, thank you! We’re not coming back.

I think my daughter did pretty good; she did like 92 out of 100. I’m very happy with that. Maybe everybody else is 99 out of 100. I don’t care. She put her effort. She’s good.

9. Playing. Because I’m so spent doing everything else that it’s hard for me to just sit down and play. And that’s more reserved for my husband. So they’re getting it, they’re just not getting it from me always.

10. Ah, okay, yes. This is something we were just discussing last night. I don’t think I’m good at saying no to things. I’m not good at the very firm, not-a-good-idea, part of things. Some things with discipline I can— like when it comes to safety— like obviously don’t stick your hand in the oven or near the oven, things like that. I’m good about things like that. I’m good about saying, “no, you have to stay off limits from the stove, you don’t put your hand there, you don’t walk down the stairs with your blanket in front of you because you’re going to trip.” Things like that I can be clear about.

But when he pushes for certain things that he wants— if he wants a second of ice cream I will cave sometimes. And I am not good at saying no in those kinds of contexts. And my husband’s like we have to be, we’re the parents. And I’m like I know but it’s hard when you know you’re making a little person sad. I don’t like seeing him crying. I don’t like being the reason why he’s sad. So I struggle with that. And at the same time I know that he has to have some boundaries and some limits. I don’t know if I always express myself well when I’m giving him boundaries.

I try to explain to him why I tell him to do certain things. When we go for a playdate I say to him, “you have to play with the toys in the way that your friend wants you to play with them; you have to be respectful of your friend’s house.” I try to tell him those things but I’m pretty sure it’s in one ear and out the other. But I do try to get it in. But I don’t know that it’s fully heard. But I definitely think I struggle with the discipline part.

I’m also not a huge believer in the time-outs. I don’t know that they really work. I like his preschool teachers this year. They were really cool and one of the things I liked about them was that she would often say, you know, I don’t think time-outs work either and she would just talk to them and try to explain to them why something they were doing wasn’t a good idea. So that’s what I attempt to do. But I don’t think that my son would ever say that I’m a disciplinarian. You know he doesn’t see me that way. I think he definitely sees me as a little bit of a pushover. That’s something I struggle with. And I guess we have to get better at that as he gets older because it’s only going to be more push and pull as he gets older.

Sometimes our pediatrician will say to us, you know, you can’t reason with him you just have to make the rules. And she’s probably right about that. But I always find myself trying to explain and give a reason, because I always felt that when I was a kid, I always wanted to know the why of things; I thought that it was fair. So I kind of go into it with that approach. And maybe she’s right— maybe I’m giving too much explanation.

The times where we have done it where we just let him cry and we hold him and I let him cry it out he does return to a better state and then we are able to get through to him; but it is very tough to do. And it’s tough to experience that. So we’ve had limited success; we probably have to do more of that.

When he’s 18 I’ll probably figure out the best way to communicate with him that’s not going to, hopefully, upset him too much.

11. I have to let go of certain things like not over-worrying about a cough or, you know, if they’re not sleeping not like totally driving myself— you know— so I have to train myself like: it’s okay, these are little kids, it happens. All the kids grow up, everybody goes to school, nothing will happen when they’re in school. Otherwise I would be stressed out all the time.

12. Daughter: Breastfeeding was hard. I sort of had hoped it would feel very natural but instead there was like a parade of— just a blooper reel of— now he won’t do it, now it’s me, now there’s too much milk, now there’s not enough. Every time I went to the pediatrician I’d be like, “it’s still a problem and here’s the new one” so she was shocked I made it to almost five months. She was like, you know, “props.” So that was not natural.

I also had a C-section so from the beginning I was being really cautious about picking him up and so it did make me feel like everything that I did had to be strategized and cleared by a physician. I think that made that idea of sort of entering into this naturally hard for me because I was still recovering and I was being told like don’t pull your stitches and don’t do this. Yeah.

Mom: I think it wasn’t natural for me. I think the selflessness of giving up your life didn’t come naturally to me. I would say, “oh damn, I want to take a shower.” And that was difficult to get used to having another person sort of being the main focus of your life. I didn’t realize how much it was going to curtail on my schedule of life.

13. I am very conscious of not being hypercritical and micromanaging situations. But I think I run the risk of doing the opposite, which is sometimes not providing advice or guidance for scenarios that he would want help in. Finding that balance is not intuitive to me.

I also often forget how emotionally immature kids can be, most of the time he acts tough like a mini adult and then a benign trigger will expose his immaturity and I’m reminded of just how vulnerable he is.

Also, I’m not naturally physically affectionate with kids, it has taken me a lot of time to get comfortable with a child grabbing my hand or constantly wanting to be in physical contact.

14. I think it’s been tough trying to balance work, a full-time job, and having a family. I just feel like there’s not enough time in a day to do everything and, not to sound selfish, but I do think it’s so important that you take time for yourself too. For your own well-being. And I think just balancing all of those things is really difficult. The weekend is the time to go grocery shopping and laundry and all of those things and we still have activities on the weekend and I feel like sometimes it’s just a rat race and they’re so little right now and I know we’re only going to get busier and busier. So I think the balance is definitely the hardest part. I also find that, you know, I had a challenging class this year, and I think some days, because I spent so much of my patience at school, when I came home I felt like I was snappier. Not every day but— just definitely the balance.

15. Two things. One is sort of pedestrian and the other is more theoretical. So the crazy organization of their schedules. I’m a relatively type A person in business and working at a computer is where I belong. So you’d think that organizing a schedule for a little person would be just— To me if I didn’t have a nanny to coordinate where they should be and when I don’t know that they would be in as many activities. And I think that’s partially because I do work outside the home— well it’s actually inside the home— but aside from being a mother and that I’m absorbed already in the logistics of work/family time I’m like, oh this is nice. So on a Saturday, being somewhere at 8:30 I’m like that’s probably not going to happen. Or if it does, like, I’ll look like this. And as I have more children I think I’ll probably get better at it because it’s such a necessary thing to do to keep them occupied. But I would say more naturally what comes to me is, like, “it’s the weekend we don’t have any plans!” So that certainly— I have to self-manage for that.

The second thing is I think also related to being a working parent and I have not figured this out yet: I so value and want to be present for the joys of spending time with them and so I start my evening with them at 5:30 with them every day and that’s like my special time with them. It’s very frustrating though to not feel like I’m not the best professional version of myself or the best mothering version of myself by virtue of the fact that I’m trying to do both. I heard someone say recently that they don’t believe in balance they believe in boundaries. That kind of resonated with me because I don’t feel like it’s ever a balance; I feel like something is always out of balance. I’m either doing really well at this and not as well as I’d like to do at that or vice versa. And I think this does come naturally to me: I think to be generous with myself. I’m not a beat myself up type of person— like mom guilt or whatever— I try not to indulge in that because I feel like nobody is going to be the best at everything. I try to be as good as I can be at the several things I’m trying. And in terms of the boundaries— prioritize. Not say yes to things that take me away from the things that are my highest priorities. Say no. If I wrote a book it would be called, “Fuck, No.” I already have a plan for it.

16. What does not come naturally— in terms of motherhood? Being very laid back. I’m very— I’m not an anxious person but it’s not my style to be very whatever. Maybe because I’m a teacher I’m a little more structured; I’m a little more regimented with schedules and stuff like that and I sort of wish that I could be— I try. I work on being a little bit more loosey goosey with certain things but it’s just out of my comfort zone.

That’s a hard question. What doesn’t come naturally? We waited a long time to have kids; we were married for 8 years. I wasn’t old but I was older by society’s norms— all these norms that people have— I was a little older. I was considered high risk with my second. And I think I’m happy I waited because I wanted it more. It wasn’t like a total shock; I was ready for it.

I cut myself a little slack. I can’t beat myself up all the time. Because it’s easy to nowadays with social media and these expectations and these snapshots of these picture-perfect moments. Did you read— there was this article. This woman wrote how she was on vacation and she was watching this mom. She came to the pool, matching swimsuits with her daughter, all done up, hair was perfect, makeup. And she was by the pool for maybe an hour and the woman was saying how she watched them take pictures and pose, you know, for social media. But there was nothing, like, loving about it. It was staged. She didn’t play with her daughter, she didn’t engage with her daughter. Everything was just for the picture to be posted and the second she got her shot she wrapped up all the toys and everything and took the daughter back to, you know, wherever. And she wrote this whole, like: I don’t want to bash this mom because, you know, you don’t know why she did it. Maybe she gets paid to do it or maybe it’s her job or whatever but it’s like— she didn’t enjoy her kid. And you’re gonna miss that in 15 years when they want to go out and hang out with their friends. You don’t want to look back and say: I should have cuddled with them more. I should have spoken to them more. I should have listened to them sing, you know, whatever song 1500 times, you know? I don’t want to look back and say: I wish I cuddled with them more. You get caught up in the moment of life. But your life really is your family and your kids, right? That’s your legacy.

It’s hard. You were a person before you had kids. So how do you differentiate who you were and are and being a mom and being a wife and being a teacher and being a maid and a chef. Women are just the most amazing people because we literally can do it all and we do. We do it every damn day. It takes a village but sometimes I think that one woman is a village. Because we do everything. We are the village. But it’s just nice when you have those friends that you can call up and be like, “I’m going to fucking sell my kids and I’m going to put them outside and I’m going to sell them for 25 cents because they’re driving me crazy.” You need to be able to say it to one of your friends who’s not going to be like, “oh my God you don’t mean that!” You have to be like, “yes, bitch, I know. I’m there too” and it just makes you feel better. It’s a hard job. And it’s a lonely one sometimes too. Guys are just wired differently. They don’t get it. Not that they’re better or worse, they’re just different. It’s not a competition of who’s better at parenting, it’s just that they do it differently. Which I think is good— it’s a good balance. But the things that I worry about my husband’s like [shrugs]—And I’m like how are you alive? Because of your mom. Not because of your dad. Moms do it all.

17. It’s gotten better, but what did not come naturally to me was probably fitting him into my life. You know, you’re on maternity leave so everything you do is around your baby. But I remember going out with my friend for the first time and my son was probably like a month and we went into town. The stroller, like, went off the sidewalk, I’m trying to nurse him, and I left things— I was so flustered. I strapped him in the carseat—you know he was in the infant seat— so I put him right into my car but I never strapped him in. I got home— luckily I was just in town and it was a two minute ride, but I didn’t strap him in. Fitting him into my everyday life. Leaving the house with him. I didn’t go anywhere for months which I think led to me feeling out of sorts, whereas my younger son I had to. I had a toddler so I went right away. But with my first fitting in and doing things with him did not come naturally to me.

I had a much easier time with my second and knowing what to expect. I think, for me, the hardest part about being a mom in the very beginning was not knowing what to expect, not knowing when it’s going to end, not knowing if what I’m doing was right. I have this innate drive to make sure I’m doing things correctly and as best as I can. And I didn’t know if anything I was doing was great. With my second I was a little bit able to let that go. I was like: this all ends and none of this really matters right now whether he’s sleeping flat or in a this or in a that or in a swing. I remember thinking the unscheduled portion— the non-schedule was what was hard. And I just knew that my second would eventually get on a schedule so I was okay with it.

18. The hardest thing was sleep deprivation. Just getting through the periods of being up all night. Having days and nights turned around. And also just having to worry about the welfare of someone else all the time. Because I had my own anxieties to begin with but then once you have a baby it’s, you know, amplified, because you are not only worried about yourself but about this little helpless thing you’re responsible for.

19. That’s an interesting question. For me I felt like I was ready for motherhood. I lived my young years; I traveled. So I was mentally prepared for motherhood. I wanted it. I think I was probably unprepared for my husband’s lack of involvement. For instance when I came home with my son, my daughter was 2 and 9 months and my husband went back to work the day after I came home from the hospital. I’m like, I have a C-section, I have a soon-to-be-3 year old and a newborn sitting here and I can’t walk. You know? And I don’t think he understood the state that I was in? I was not healed. He needed to be home for a little while to help me out for a little bit? So I was unprepared for that lack of support. Or that he just didn’t understand what I needed in that moment. That I wasn’t able to function and care for two children yet.

20. Being patient. I am not a very patient person by nature, and kids have a way of testing patience and pushing buttons like no other! I have to make a conscious effort every single day to try to remain calm and patient with my kids, and while I can’t say that I never lose my cool, I can say that I am more patient now than I was before I became a mother.

21. I think the relationship part of it with my husband. That’s been work. We knew it would be work. Like I read all this stuff that was like quality of life for married couples goes down so much when you introduce a baby and then like especially if you introduce a second one within a certain— and so I was really worried about that? Our relationship has gotten stronger. It hasn’t suffered. But it’s effort to say things that aren’t just about the baby and to like let him have his space when the baby is crying and not be like, “I got it.” I have to think about it and not snap at each other when we’re tired kind of thing.

22. Feeding, diapering, bathing, everything really. Except holding her.

23. La paciencia.

24. I’m not as patient as I hoped I would be. I really have to remind myself not to yell. I thought I would not. I never really thought about it. I thought I wouldn’t yell or we could work it out. But I didn’t think that I would be that impatient but I am and I really have to work at it. For sure. Having children has pointed out that I am not patient and that I could stand to give people, not just my children but all people around me a lot more— I was talking to another mom about this and the word she used was grace which I thought was a really nice way to put it. And it’s true. And it’s something I work on really actively and it’s almost like a muscle memory thing; like if I practice being patient it comes more naturally: the more I am the more it works because it’s like a habit. If I can get myself into the habit of being more kind and gentle then it’s fine. But there was a time, especially when I was pregnant, when I was just yelling at my daughter. And I couldn’t— I was so frustrated— I couldn’t believe how mad I could get at this two year old. She was undoubtedly frustrating but, like, she’s a person; she’s two and there are definitely times when my husband and I will, like, tap each other out and be like I’ll take care of this. But even now with our son, because I have another person I’ll get less patient with him than I was with her. I’ll get frustrated more easy. It’s like stimulus overload: like the dogs are barking, my daughter is talking, he’s doing whatever he’s doing and it’s too much in my head and I lose it and then I’m like: sorry I needed a moment of not talking at me or whatever it is. It’s definitely a patience thing. That’s something that just doesn’t come that naturally to me that I really have to be active on.

25. I would say, for example, when my first was starting to be able to play by herself a little bit, but still needed someone else to stimulate her really, knowing what would be best for her in terms of play. I kind of blame that on, well, I wasn’t trained in education. I don’t have an education degree and I’m not a teacher. But just feeling like oh, you’re at the age now well maybe you’d want to paint or maybe you want to color. Like those things, yeah, I really did have to look, like, where developmentally— what should she be playing with that I’m not providing at this point. And it wasn’t until I went back to work and she started at daycare that I realized how much I didn’t know. Oh you should have been—not should have been necessarily but— I could have been exposing you to these things and I just didn’t— I don’t know how to play with a 7 month old. Really. That would also be educational at the same time. As opposed to me just making fart noises and letting you laugh. You know? It was that kind of stuff that I was like oh, you could probably play with this that or the other and I don’t have those toys yet. It was those kinds of things that I felt like I should have read more about and yeah. After her first week of daycare I felt like she was so different because she had been exposed to just, like, putting her hands on construction paper and things. I was like, I didn’t even think that that was like tactile things that you would need to experience. I’m sorry. She was only 4 months old, but I definitely saw a difference in her. And I was like, you were watching me do laundry is what you were doing for two hours yesterday instead of touching a fuzzy thing. So yeah, those things did not come naturally to me.

26. Discipline.

27. Relaxing. Being able to flow with it and to be calm. There. And that’s why my husband was so wonderful. I used to say he was the mother because he was calm; he was just calm. I know that when my son was a young kid as soon as I would hold his hand it would calm me down. His calm heartbeat would resonate with me. It would calm me down.

And those are just some of the things that do not come naturally to mothers. Can you relate?

Coming up: a real doozy: How has being a mother changed your relationship with your spouse? [insert wild laughter]