Mom Talk – Part 14

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  Taking selfies so I can choose a featured image. First attempt: looking thoughtful

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  Pretending to smile at someone like we’re having a fabulous conversation

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  Deciding that maybe the most important thing to show is the size of my coffee cup. #jarsofdust

Question: What didn’t I ask you that you would have thought I would have asked? What didn’t you get a chance to say?

What questions didn’t I ask? A dozen that I can think of. Hundreds that are waiting in the deep recesses of my brain to be thought of. For the time being, read on.

Answers:

1. No I think you got everything.

2. I think you covered everything.

3. I would have thought you would have asked me about advice I would give to certain people on certain things. I think that’s really interesting to hear people’s advice because everyone comes from such different backgrounds and different marriages and different kids. There’s so many elements between, you know, the relationship with the spouse or work or all these different things. The balance. I think a big topic of conversation, especially in my world, is the juggle— the balance— work/life balance. That topic comes up almost every day in my life with people. So talking about how motherhood affects work, how you identify yourself— your own identity and how motherhood affects that. Most people have had kids in their late 20s or 30s so you have worked— you’ve built some career— how children affect that. Something that you identified with for so long, that you’ve worked so hard for, and how motherhood affects that. That to me is a very big topic of conversation that should always be addressed because it does affect it for anyone who had kids a little bit later.

Unfortunately today, it’s 2019, you have to accept the fact that it ain’t fair. It’s just not fair. It’s all gonna fall on you. The men cannot have the babies. You have to have the baby—that’s just how it is. You have to be pregnant, you have to have the baby, you have to recover from it. You’re in charge of that and no one can change a damn thing about it and you have to accept the fact that it’s basically like working while you are sick: you are not at 100% during that pregnancy— you’re just not— and you’re certainly not at 100% after the pregnancy and your priorities change and things change and things shift but that doesn’t mean it’s the end of the road. It doesn’t mean its the end of your career. Careers don’t have to be linear. There are options out there if you want to switch gear or you want to take your career down a few notches there are options. You just have to explore them. It’s not all or nothing anymore.

And here’s the other thing I like to talk about because people don’t talk about it enough— and some people will get mad at me for saying this but not many. My opinion, and I think the opinion of many other people, is that you cannot be a great CEO, a great mother, a great friend and a great wife all at the same time; I just don’t believe that. Something’s gotta give. So if you’re the CEO— and that’s an extreme— any sort of big, big major job that’s very demanding and very prestigious— there’s no way you’re also the best mom in the world. I’m sorry, you have to travel. You can be a loving mother but you’re certainly not the most hands-on because it’s impossible. Oh wait and there’s a spouse too. And that person needs your love and attention and a date night and, you know, compassion; and he’s had quite a day also. Unless he’s the stay-at-home dad and that’s another dynamic. But the point is you can’t be it all so something’s gotta give and you have to make choices sometimes and when you have small children, which one’s gonna give? Oh wait and then your girlfriends want to hang out too and you don’t want to lose those friendships so there’s all these things pulling at you. So for people who think you can lean in and have it all, I honestly think it’s bullshit. I don’t believe that at all. Sorry, I know that book sold a lot of copies. I’m sorry. That only works for a very narrow kind of person. I’ve been in the corporate world for a long time. I have my own business; I know what’s what. The women who are in their 40s in big time jobs— they are not the same types of mothers that they want to be. They feel guilty all the time. There’s only so many hours of the day. Oh wait and you have to also throw in self-care like working out. But it’s all a balance. People constantly ask me— I don’t know why they ask me this— it’s really interesting, “are you working, like, part time?” I’m like, I have a full time business; this isn’t a hobby— it’s full time. But it’s my version of full time and the hours are spread out. My older son’s last day of school is on Tuesday and I want to be there to pick him up and that’s in the middle of the day. So I blocked out three hours of time in the middle of the day but I’ll catch up either that night after he goes to sleep or I’ll catch up the next day.

I don’t want the time to pass and I don’t want the day to come where I look back and it is too late. I never wanted to regret not trying to create something, to create a legacy, to create something that has meaning and that has meaning to me.

Not everyone feels this way; this is just me. I always say to my friends who are stay-at-home moms: I wish I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom because I have the privilege, if I wanted, to be a stay-at-home mom— to be able to do that— and I don’t want to be. I sometimes feel guilty because I don’t want to be but at the same time I don’t feel guilty. As it is now, the time I have with my kids I enjoy because I appreciate it. Because I have other things going on and I work. But I think if I were a stay-at-home mom I would not feel as appreciative of the time I have with them and I don’t think my marriage would be as strong. And eventually, by the way, they go to school and then eventually they leave and then what? That was always my fear – that time will come so fast and then what am I doing? Then what am I doing with myself? So. I think this is a common conversation that people have. Men don’t have to have these conversations, but women do.

4. What might be interesting for a book like this is to talk about how motherhood might maybe affect professional life or career development. Maybe not?

5. I don’t think there’s anything else I was thinking you would ask. I really didn’t know what we were doing. Is that okay? Anything else? I feel like once this baby comes I could have a lot more things to say. I mean I just hope it’s healthy. But if it’s not it would be a whole other chapter of my book.

6. Do I like my kids? No I’m kidding. How do I— maybe not every mother feels like they need to escape motherhood— but how do I escape motherhood when I need to? Because I definitely need to. And that is just hiding somewhere. Going to yoga. And also I would say, you know, how has my husband’s approach at being a father affected my approach at being a mother? I think there’s a misconception sometimes that men don’t pull their fair share and that’s a very antiquated concept I feel like. I think it was true in the Baby Boomer generation. I think this generation of dads, at least from what I’ve seen, but personally and around me, dads are really pulling their weight at home. And I think thinking about being a parent when I was young versus what that has turned into now, it really is a team effort.

It’s funny. It’s more so about women’s natural ability to organize and prioritize maybe. That was one of the biggest points of contention between my husband and me when we first had kids it was— from the Break Up— “I don’t need you to do the dishes; I need you to want to do the dishes.” We want not only the physical labor to be unburdened but we want the mental labor that’s required to do all these things like the Christmas cards or— we have not yet sent out the we’ve moved cards— or the medical forms for camp and little things that get piled up. I’m trying to shift it in that direction but also, and I think about this too: when we first started living together I had a condo and I just didn’t want to be a landlord anymore so I moved out of my condo and we rented it out and I was like, yeah I want nothing to do with this. Here you go. And now he handles that and he handles all of the finances and he handles all of the, you know, when we are finally ready to sell our house he’s going to do all of it. So I forgive him a little bit. I also understand that he’s got his own other things that he’s worried about that he’s better suited to do. So if I have to tell him sometimes, “hey, you have to clean out the garage” it’s fine. But it is a little frustrating because I’m like can’t you just read my mind? Just read my mind. Just get it from in there please.

If I say to my husband, “I’m going to hot yoga and you can’t stop me like, bye, peace out—” I used to worry about well what is he going to do with the kids? Is he going to feed them? And I’ve gotten to the point where— well the kids have gotten a little older and they can say what they want— but like I just go. In fact I just go a lot. When it’s my mom or my husband’s mom or my husband I’m like: figure it out. If they’re hungry, they’ll tell you. Just give them some water. Just make sure they don’t dehydrate and we’re good. So I’m a little less neurotic about micromanaging their things. My mom is not. So funny story. My mom had something where she couldn’t be with us for a week so my husband’s mom stayed with us for a week and got them off to school. My mother made a list: “She will only eat x, y and z” and she made a whole list. And do you know what I did when she left? I threw it in the garbage. And I’m like to my mother-in-law: you got this. I’m sure you’ll know what to make them for lunch. If they don’t like it, they won’t eat it and they’ll eat when they come home.

It was fine; everyone was fine. The funny thing about my mom— she spends every single day with the girls but they like what they like because she manages it for them but my husband’s mom has a completely different way of doing it and she does different things and I can’t let my mom impose on her or me. Because my mom’ll tell me, “this one doesn’t like x, y, z” and I’m like, really? Well she’s gonna eat it or she’s gonna starve. So that’s been interesting. People will figure it out. I said to somebody because we were having a conversation about are we going to hold a kid back? I will face that challenge or that decision with my younger daughter because she was born in September. “Are you gonna hold her back?” “I don’t know, I guess I’ll see when I get there.” “Because there have been studies done about x, y, z” and I’m like, our kids will be fine just by virtue of the fact that they’re our kids; we care— we care so much— and this decision— even if it turns out she has a bad time in second grade because of something— I’m not going to go back and be like it’s because I didn’t send her early or late or whatever. They’re gonna be fine.

The other thing I’ll tell you I think is funny. I was talking to a cousin of mine. Long story short, she was very coddled by her parents when she was little and she and I are the same age. It sucks but she went through a rough time. She got married to someone she shouldn’t have gotten married to, he left her, she was like depressed for a long time, she went through bouts and bouts of depression and now she blames her mom because her mom always coddled her. And I’m like— all of our parents did the best they could; they all did what was right. You can’t have resentment towards her because she didn’t let you fail or didn’t let you do this. Now you’ve gotta get over it because you’re 38. But I did say my mom was always very self-centered when she was young. This is a new mom that I have now; she’s amazing to her grandkids. To me and my sister she was kind of never present. Not that I’m throwing her under the bus or anything. She was cool and she was strict but she was not present all the time. My dad did a lot of the parenting, a lot of the cooking at home. But I said to my cousin: you know, there’s something to be said for a little bit of neglect. We can’t go and micromanage our kids lives. If my older daughter gets a teacher that’s not highly regarded I’m not gonna go in and fight for her to get the right teacher because you know what? It might do her some good. A little neglect goes a long way. And I hate to say it that way— it sounds so dismissive, but kids’ll figure it out. None of this is going to scar them for life. Everything will be fine.

Perfectionism was a childish— something childish I held onto for a long time. I still try to do things really well; I still bring my best. But that notion that I had to be perfect to other people is what I let go of. Always, all of this comes with forgiveness of myself. Am I always going to do the right thing? No. And I just have to be okay with that. I forgive myself for yelling. Like this morning. My older daughter is very rigid. She tried on three different outfits even after we picked an outfit last night to go gymnastics camp; she didn’t like it because it was a tad big. And I lost my mind and I yelled at her; we got into a huge fight and she was crying and it didn’t go well. Later I’ll apologize. But I didn’t handle that well. But then again we’re all trying to get ready in the morning and it’s gonna go crazy so I just have to forgive myself for it. Or, like, I work a lot and I travel a lot and I have my younger daughter that says, “Mommy, can you play with me?” And I can’t because I have to get on a conference call or I have to leave or I have to do something and we’re all just trying to do the best we can so I try to forgive myself often. And maybe that line about neglect is part of me just rationalizing that for myself, but I also do believe it. I do believe it. I hope this was helpful.

8. I love your questions. I really love them because I feel like I never had the time to reflect on this motherhood— never. You just have to keep going; you don’t even have time to think about it, to reflect on it. And really this should come back every once and awhile. I think you should go back to these women, to me, in 2 years because it will change and the story will only be better.

9. When are you most stressed? Or when do you feel like you’re lacking as a parent? Right? Some negative stuff. You asked a lot of positives. For me, when I feel like I can’t be there for them when I want to be there. Like last week was end of school stuff so you’re making a priority to be at the school event, the party, but it’s also the last day of gymnastics and there’s a parent thing that day and the last day of swimming also in that week and you just can’t make it all; that’s when I get really stressed out because it impacts them. And I see it.

So I pick the ones I can go to; I try to make sure my husband can go to something or the two of us are at the most important things together. Because it’s also hard when you go to an event and both parents are there and your spouse isn’t. And we just try to do our best.

Most dads in this town work, some moms don’t. So they expect that the dad won’t be there to all these things but they expect that the mom will be there. So I’m constantly reinforcing that you know: Mommy works. Mommy has a great job and it’s a good thing for Mom and for you and Mommy will always get to as much as she can get to. And it might not always be every time but I will make it my job to get to the most important things.

I’m so disappointed. A couple of weeks ago I couldn’t go to an event because of an important meeting and the meeting was just not important. And we walked away from it— I was just devastated. I was like, why did I waste my time with this? When I had my first child one of the ladies I worked with said, “every day you’re going to have to leave at the time when you think is right for you and other people won’t leave at that time. And you need to be okay with it and walk out the door with your head held high.” And I’ve very much stuck to it. But even today I leave for the 5:18 train and nobody else is leaving and I have to be okay with that. So part of it is just changing your anxieties and guilt and your feelings and perception of other people. Not caring. Because your kids are most important.

My sister once said to me when I was thinking about quitting, “you don’t have to not work; right now you have to work less. So you need to find the right situation where you can work less than what you were previously doing” and that’s hard. It’s like finding the right fit and the right job. And that can’t be both parents. Because somebody has to bring home the bacon. She also always said, “you’re never going to get to everything; you have to pick what’s most important.” so those are two rules I follow and like you said, just forgiving yourself. It’s hard. It’s so hard. It’s hard for everybody. If I were home it would be just as hard. I can step away from motherhood so much every day and be in my previous life and enjoy that, right? Like all the adult interactions and the brain work and everything. And I couldn’t do that if I were at home and that would be really hard on my mental strength.

10. Oh no! Not necessarily. I think they were great and I think it’s a great initiative for so many reasons. I think the whole celebrity culture thing— I don’t understand why people take advice— because they’re not living in the real world and you’re only seeing one side of how they do things. They could be a horrible mother. The picture doesn’t show them with all the other things that are going on in their lives it’s just a picture.

I guess other things that come up, I don’t know, I think we touched on a lot of good things. One thing I notice is that there are so many misconceptions that come up about motherhood. Some people think it’s so easy, you know, I have gotten a lot of that at work. You know, you can just do this assignment and it’s no problem and they don’t appreciate that I’ve done this assignment while there’s a kid screaming in the background and there’s this going on and craziness happening around me. There are people who don’t appreciate motherhood and it does always take me by surprise but it does exist and I think that that’s something that I have to learn to respond to or sometimes maybe just not engage with. I have seen things happen with moms being sort of shamed and that always makes me so uncomfortable. But there still is that undercurrent with women where there is a lot of mom-shaming that goes on. The kid is screaming in the restaurant and another person complains and says things like your kid is only cute to you. I’ve heard things like that. I think that’s so messed up. I just think there has to be more tolerance in general in the world. I think maybe it starts with— maybe that’s something mom culture can drive. Let’s be tolerant. Let’s understand there’s a lot of work that goes into being a mom and just appreciate and value them. Show some respect while you’re at it.

I’m so happy to be in the world of moms. I always wanted to go over to that side. And it’s like I do feel like now an automatic kinship with someone on the street who’s a mom with a child who is having a tantrum in the middle of the street and I’m like: oh I feel your pain. And I do feel that sympathy for the child that’s crying. I hate the sound of a child crying. It’s the worst sound in the world. I still go like a radar to that child anywhere in a five minute radius of me I will find them and I will zero in on them. And it’s so rewarding to be in that world and I get so much joy from it and I hope to have one more. We’ll see.

11. Not really. But I think the society puts a lot of pressure on being— there’s this whole term of good mothering. That should not be in a part of anybody’s dictionary. I think every mother does the best. Every mother is a good mother. There are sometimes there are circumstances which, you know, things happen, but I think every mother is a good mother.

12. Mom: I thought you did a great job of covering all the aspects of motherhood. I couldn’t think of anything else. First of all your openness, and you’re very warm and it’s easy to talk to you.

Daughter: I think your questions were open-ended enough that people could really tailor them to their own experiences. I think that’s important because there is no singular maternal experience. I think there’s things in common: how do you structure your time, always feeling interrupted, tired, whatever. But I spend too much time looking at mothers’ responses on the internet and sometimes I feel like they must be raising a different species and sometimes I feel completely recognized. So I think you did a good job of being able to include mothers with a lot of kids, one kid—

Another thing. I think it’s important. I was very stressed out when he was born about bonding. I was very worried that he would not bond with me and I think maybe one thing I would tell that lady in the elevator is like: don’t get in your head so much about what the research says it takes for a baby to bond with you. You’re the only mom he’s got and there’s a million ways to be a mother. So stop fretting about this chemical reaction that you have no control over anyway. I was so worried I was like, he won’t bond! And there wasn’t a competition to choose like who got to be his mom it was always going to be me. And I’ve only now started to get out of that mind set like I need to do something. Just being with him all the time is the bond.

13. I don’t know what question would have led to this— maybe it would have been about lessons learned— but one thing I’ve noticed about myself in my “parenting style” is that we all have baggage from our own parents, right? And so in an effort to not be your mom or your dad or whatever thing you don’t want to be like I feel like sometimes we have blind spots and we end up becoming the opposite thing which has it’s own risks but we don’t realize that. So for example my mom was really critical. She was constantly interfering with stuff even if it was like the simplest thing; I’m boiling water and she’s gonna come over and adjust the heat. So I feel like I’ve swung to the other extreme where I’m like, I’m not going to intervene at all because I don’t want you to feel micromanaged but then I’m like, well, I probably want to give you some boundaries so that you’re safe and so that you feel like you have proper advice and guidance in the world. So I feel like it’s been interesting for me to try to navigate that just because you’re not doing whatever it was your parents did that you didn’t particularly love, doesn’t mean— you gotta be careful to not do something equally as bad by trying to avoid it.

14. Did you ask what the hardest thing was? I feel like your questions got at that without being so direct. I think it’s a good set of questions because it’s open-ended enough that people can take it where they want.

I was super busy in work over the period of a couple of months in November through January. Too busy. And my younger son’s first birthday was in November. And I didn’t come down from work until it was like 7. Dinner was ready and it was time to eat and I had hardly seen him on his first birthday. I realize that birthdays are— it’s this arbitrary thing— if I see him the day before and the day after it’s not, you know, but I came down and I started crying. I was like I haven’t even seen my baby and it’s his first birthday and he’s the best baby ever and this is not what I signed up for. It wasn’t guilty as much as mad. I deserve to be with him on his first birthday but I had so much work and it’s client work that just needs to get done. So I had a little cry and I got over it. I was like, first of all, realizing that whether it’s yesterday or tomorrow really it’s not that big of a deal. Second of all, I have control over this I can scale down. And third of all, he feels loved and I’m a good mom and it’s okay; this is just one day and it’s okay to feel frustrated. So I talked myself off the ledge. It was a combination of feeling guilt and anger and frustration.

15. I think one of the things— I don’t know if there’s something you should have asked. I worked up until I gave birth and then I’ve been on a child care leave a little longer than expected. It’s a little lonely I think. Motherhood can be lonely. And it’s hard, when you get older, to make friends. You know what I mean? Bitch, I don’t have time to fucking make friends with you like we can’t brunch, do you know what I mean? But I think you have to just— I don’t know— it’s like a sink or swim type of job. You don’t know how you do it, you just do it. You know the movie Groundhog Day? It’s like the never ending day. From birth until— I don’t know— when will I relax? When they’re 40 or 80?

I’m going back to work in September and I have an au pair coming. I’m like one of those now. And I say that and I vomit in my mouth. If someone would have told me that like 10 years ago I’d be like, “I’m not going to have a fucking au pair.” But because of our hours I need it. And I’m worried. I think my kids are going to be fine; I think it’s me. My friend was here this weekend she was like, “it’s you. You’re kids will be fine. You’re going to be the mess. She’s like, watch, your kids will be fine.”

Everyone’s like: become a teacher! Your hours are great! Well what the heck do you do when you have to be at work and your kids have to be at school an hour and a half later? Because my start time is 7:43 at my new school. My kids don’t go to preschool until 9. I have to leave my house at 6 AM. My husband leaves the house at 6 AM.

One of the biggest things that I was worried about going back to work— you know when they have the little Thanksgiving stuff? I told my husband and I’m like I’m going to have to call your aunt to go or my mom might have to go or you might have to go into work late one day. I don’t want my kids to be the only kids without somebody there to love on them. My mom worked but she went back to work when I went to Kindergarten. She worked at a doctor’s office.

It’s hard. Women are expected to have a work life, have a home life, have a social life. And your kids and then this and then that. And it’s like when can we just sit and pick our toenails, you know? Seriously. I had no help when my kids were little; I didn’t have a nanny because I stayed at home— whatever. My husband would come home and I was like I’m gonna go and sit in the bathroom. He’s like, “oh, what are you gonna do? I just got home from work.” “I’m gonna fucking pick my toenails, that’s what I’m gonna do. You have no right to ask me what the fuck I’m going to do. You got to go and have adult conversations all day. I got to argue with a two and half year old.” So my husband comes home and he was like, “how was your day?” And I was like, “fuck you I want to sit and pick my fucking toenails for ten minutes. In peace!” And he’s like, “okay, okay go ahead.” And of course I know what’s going to happen— he’s not going to watch them. They’re banging on the door and I’m like, “can you just fucking take them on a walk around the building? I just want quiet.” And he’s like, “you okay? You look a little tense.” And I’m like, “fuck you.” He’s like, “well I worked all day” and I’m like, “I haven’t showered in like 4 days. Fuck off.” Do you know what I mean? I feel like sometimes it’s a competition of, like, who has a right to be more tired. I’m like, I haven’t washed my hair in 4 days and he’s like, well I don’t have any hair. I’m like, well that’s not my fault. Let me bathe? Can I bathe? Do you want a hug? Please let me bathe.

16. I don’t know if you were going to ask me more about parenting styles or how do you get through a day? What do you do to get through a day? How do you get through a day? Is it working out? Is it taking 20 minutes for yourself? What are the best tools you can use? Even if it’s not escaping, it’s just what do you need day to day to be who you want to be? Maybe it’s someone likes to go running for 20 minutes but maybe it’s reading to their kids for 15 minutes; maybe it’s quiet time with your kids. And maybe most of the time it will be without their children. Probably I just more look at it like it doesn’t feel like escaping to me like this helps me get through my day. I don’t know that I’m escaping necessarily my kids are right there. I can hear them. I have to give them breakfast and I have to be mindful of them so I wouldn’t call this an escape but this interaction helps me get through my day because it’s like I’m not just with them all day long.

17. You asked a lot of really good questions. I think when I think of motherhood and kind of the social constructs around it especially for suburban moms like, what’s interesting to me is kind of what grouping people pair themselves into. There’s the cliché of the granola, hippie attachment parent and then there’s a lot of parents, their identity of being a working mom. There’s a million things. I guess you could ask people, like, do you classify yourself as a particular kind of mom or if you had to what group or school would you be in?

I think I had kind of a gravitational pull towards attachment parenting but it felt like it didn’t work for who my kid was. Because, like, people would be like “just bring the baby into the bed with you” and I would complain that she wouldn’t sleep. And she never wanted to sleep next to us. Or people would be like “why don’t you just wear her?” I’m like because she’s not happy being worn either. I mean I did sometimes but it didn’t seem like there was any solution that was a catch-all for all my mom troubles and I also just feel like I don’t want to be part of some mom cliché.

If you find yourself in a group of moms that you’re not familiar with there’s certain topics of conversation that always inevitably come up and then people kind of, I dont know, it’s a weird push and pull because in one circumstance all the moms feel united in this common experience and they’re trying to relate to one another but then there’s a lot of defensiveness too. Like I was joking with my friend— I went to a birthday party of one of my husband’s friend’s kids who we haven’t seen in years and she has a very tight-knit group of moms from her daycare. And they were very supportive of one another but, as an outsider, it was very hard to break into it because they were like oh, you don’t work? And like I’ve known some mom groups where moms kind of almost adopt a bad moms attitude like almost like: I’m not going to be perfect; I’m going to literally joke about being the opposite of a good parent, which I find hard to relate to because to me so much of my day is thinking about motherhood, like it’s my job, you know? But then I don’t know. I wonder if that’s just me being judgmental. I have no idea.

It’s so interesting because dads don’t have that. They can just talk to other dads and have this commonality and make easy conversation where there’s no one’s feelings are being hurt and it’s not contentious at all. I feel like I have different groups of friends that are all really different and I can get along with them; like I don’t feel like I fit into any package in that way. Yeah, it’s interesting. I think some of it is rooted in people’s insecurities about motherhood, which everyone has, regardless of what kind of mom you are. But I happen to be friends with a lot of people who have multiple kids, like 3 or more kids, because my town is full of huge families and so people have a lot of questions: why did you decide to have one child? What is that like? There’s kind of a line of questions like: that must be so great, you have so much time to yourself. All moms are kind of always sizing each other up. I guess all women are. People think it’s so formative. Whereas you never assume that all people who have 2 kids have the same experience.

It’s nice talking about all this stuff because people don’t really discuss it honestly like this. I have a few good friends that I do talk about the emotional components of motherhood but yeah, everyone’s always kind of, they want to bond as moms but they don’t want to step on people’s toes because they don’t want to be offensive.

It’s interesting. I’ve met moms who are kind of emotionally distanced from their kids and I feel like that really more a manifestation of like trying to tolerate the circumstances they’re in which are horrific. Like people who have shared custody where they don’t see their kids every day. Or people that work so many hours that they’re not interacting with their kids on a daily basis. And I think any woman, and maybe this sounds sexist, but I think maybe it’s a traumatic experience and when that’s happening people have to blunt themselves to the emotions and they have to put a wall up. Because I’ve met moms like that. And I’m sure they are also talking about my psychology and why I act the way I act. It’s a really intense experience. It’s also like the most common experience so it’s hard to reconcile that.

I think in some ways postmodern-feminism has left out stay-at-home moms in a way that is not good for all moms. You know, being a mom is a form of work. Whether you’re kind of outsourcing that and you have a beloved nanny who is part of your family and is helping you mother or whether you’re doing it, it’s a devalued labor force, for sure.

18. Maybe if you could change anything about your parenting what would it be? Or what is something that you learned that you didn’t already know? For me, so something that I learned— something that shocked me— is when I went from one to two. I did not realize how much siblings impact one another. I thought it was just us and our parenting. I learned very quickly how my son is being shaped by his interactions with his older sister and that he’s not having the same experience that she had. And I thought that they would. They’re raised in the same house, they’ve been given the same things. I see how he gets quiet because she hogs up so much attention so he’s willing to take a backseat to his sister. It’s not just us that molds and I think that was surprising.

If I could change anything about my parenting: I think maybe not be so intense. I think I was following in my father’s footsteps and I’m very intense. But. I’m not so sure that I would change it; I think that I would just pay more attention to it. I would watch it more closely. The whole thing is that my husband is not very strict at all. He acts like he is but he’s not when it comes to discipline and actually doing things. As far as working and doing school work that’s all on me and pushing them. So I think also it depends on your partner. You can’t have two rocks— that’s not fair to them. I think I would work a little better to feed off of my partner to give them— and it’s all growing as a parent.

Regardless of the fact if I’m working or not I know the names of their best friends and dentists. So it’s not just an excuse about work. Mothers will know that no matter what is going on in their lives. Mothers are invested in their children on a different level. I think all fathers need to see that and ask them those questions. Ask them how their day was and who did they hang out with today. Just be more invested in their personality and what’s going on. It’s like they get to be oblivious and we kind of co-sign and we allow them to do that and we shouldn’t. I’m not trying to put them down at all. They’re needed. It’s just different.

19. How being a working mother has impacted my feelings on motherhood. As a working mom, I am very aware of the sacrifices that I have to make as a mom, but also of the benefits that I believe me and my children get from me working. People say that you can’t have it all, but I am trying to prove them wrong!

20. One question that someone asked me the other day was do you still hang out with your friends who don’t have kids? Which I thought was interesting. Or like how’s the relationship going? But there was a little bit of like— my friends’ reactions at the beginning. It was kind of weird. It was like happy but it was also like—bye— and now I think now that they think Oh! You’re still you.

21. I had no idea what questions you were going to ask.

22. Si me hubiero gustado tener otro hijo.

23. I don’t know. I feel like I think we talked about a lot because a lot of the questions you asked encompassed a lot of things. I’m sure a lot of people are the same way. These specific themes that run throughout based on their personality and lifestyle and what’s important to them. And so all these different questions will come up with the same themes because that’s just who they are and that’s just what they think about. I guess you could say what are you failing at? But you asked what does not come naturally to you which is probably a kinder way—

24. I don’t know I feel like— maybe what do you like the most or least about motherhood? But you kind of asked that. I was happy that you asked questions that tapped into my emotional well being than just basically about the baby. I feel like you had good questions.

26. I guess my favorite part is sort of like the most rewarding. But what’s my least favorite part? I guess it’s the same thing— I miss sleeping on my own schedule. The weekend loses all meaning when you have a baby who’s gonna wake up at the same time no matter what day of the week it is. You know?

27. I don’t know. I guess I didn’t really have— about motherhood— I wish I had something really important and clever to add. But I don’t. I guess just that when you get to my stage you miss having your children, your children in law, your grandchildren around and that’s a very hard part of arriving at this stage. And maybe I tend to look back with such, thank goodness, fondness of those times and they bring me a lot of joy even now. That’s the positive. The negative is missing it. The positive is having the memories which light up the day. One of the things I’m doing now is I’m going through boxes of old photographs and I’m sorting them to give to my children and they give me such pleasure because I relive those times.

Is it me or are these women just ridiculously smart and impressive and clever? Conducting these interviews was an incredible experience for me. Aside from having children and fulfilling that dream of being a mother, interviewing women about motherhood pretty much sums up every other dream I have: drinking coffee, hearing about people’s lives, commiserating about motherhood, helping people think about things they wouldn’t have otherweise thought about, bringing the stories of ordinary women into the universe. If I could do this all day, every day that would be my ideal life.

On that note, I’ve got my next set of questions burning a hole in my pocket. Anyone interested in this next round? Now that we know the entire world can be run through Zoom, it’ll be a lot easier to interview people on the other side of the globe. And a lot better for my aviophobia. Until next time.

Mom Talk – Part 6

Audio version. Can you hear my Manischewitz?

Question: How has being a mother changed your relationship with your spouse?

My husband and I were a great childless couple. We got each other. We loved each other. We didn’t fight. We never fought. There was just nothing to argue about. Having kids made all the love feelings stronger in a lot of ways— seeing this child, these children, that we created. Mentally, I felt super close to him. We still didn’t have many reasons to argue because we were very much on the same page about things; if one of us felt strongly about something about the kids it was usually me and he was pretty much always ready to back me up. That being said, and I say this understanding that my parents will read this, the physical closeness basically disappeared. Being climbed all over all day by these tiny people made me feel incredibly like— please don’t touch me— in fact don’t come anywhere near me— basically don’t bother looking at me. Now that our oldest is almost 8 and our youngest is almost 3 I finally, finally feel like I’m okay if we maybe hold hands. Sometimes.

Just to illustrate I want you to see some photos from before kids:

kissy faces

looking back with a smile

even a slight smile when caught off guard

Look what happened almost immediately after our first was born:

And these days?

• 

• 

• 

And that’s if I’m not straight up:

ptfo

BUT as with everything related to motherhood so far it’s complicated:

We like each other!

We have fun!

We haven’t forgotten how to smile!

And sometimes I even attempt something that isn’t contempt when he takes pictures of me…

Moms notice the positive impact of children on their relationships: they appreciate their spouses; they value them; they love seeing them in a new role; their relationship is deeper; they communicate more. I full on agree with these. Moms notice the negative impact of children on their relationships too: more criticism; things are less equal; they have less alone time; they only talk about their kids; they never have sex; it’s less fun; it’s more effort. I full on agree with these too. Like everything in life and motherhood, it’s complicated.

The answers:

1. Um, we definitely spend less alone time together. And most of the conversation revolves around our child.

2. In some ways its definitely deeper and it’s better but it isn’t as much fun and I know that’s fairly obvious. A childless person could probably tell you that a child makes your relationship less fun but— it definitely does. It’s less sparkly.

3. More patient. More compromise. More effort to give him the attention and each other the attention that we need. And more accepting.

4. Honestly, it’s hard to sort of remember. I do remember the first time I went on a business trip when my oldest was about 6 months old. I went back to work when she was 4 months old and I was freaking out. I pumped and everything was ready and of course she was still waking up in the middle of the night because, as you recall, she didn’t have a chance— from one story ago— she had no chance. I went on this business trip and I think it was all of three days and I got back and he was so much more competent. Like, she survived and I was calling and he was so much more competent and my life got better because he was so much more comfortable and I was like: God I should have gone on that business trip a long time ago.

5. It’s good. I think. I really like my husband. I would say, as probably every couple does, you go into it not really knowing what to expect, like, none of our friends had kids, we were pretty young, we did it because I wanted it— I was ready. I would say it surprised both of us in how much we love it. Because again, neither of us were, like, kid people. So I think it’s been really good. I just love watching him with the kids; he’s just so devoted. I mean— on Saturdays and Sundays. When he’s not working. But like, I think I always— we always have conversations— well, not always, but sometimes I’ll say it’s so fascinating to me on a weekend if I’m going away to see a friend or whatever he is just looking forward to that weekend for weeks and weeks because he just wants his time with the kids. So he’s the dad and he’s gonna be the one that’s for them if they need anything and all that kind of stuff. For me, if he’s going away for the weekend, I want to get a babysitter so I can go out one night or whatever— it doesn’t really change or affect my life in any way but he just loves it so much. So I would say it’s really good. And I think part of it is, because he’s not there during the week, he’s just so ultra-supportive of anything I need as a mom. He’s so outward with saying, like, “being a mom must be the hardest thing ever,” you know, “being you must be really hard; I don’t know how you do it.” And he acknowledges it all the time and I think that’s so nice that he doesn’t take anything for granted and just is very recognizing of the situation that our family is in. But really our family is just the light of his life and it’s really cute to see. So I would say it’s good. And we’re both very committed still to each other and making sure we do date nights all the time or go away for the weekend or that kind of thing. We’re on the same page about it. So I’d say it’s really good. It’s just been really positive. You know we thought it was great before kids and then you have kids and you just don’t realize how great it can be.

Let me back track for a minute. Just to clarify. It’s not like, you know, I don’t want to give people this impression, if they’re reading it, that he’s like the ultimate stay-at-home dad who is so involved— like—no. He’s not around very much at all. But I think that the way that it worked for us is— because he’s not around, and because he’s recognizing, and also willing to take a new job so that he can be around more or is always like, “get more childcare if you need more childcare; do this for yourself; do that” just to show that being a mom is really hard. But I don’t want people to think that it’s like this perfect world. He feels bad because he’s not around during the week and— whatever— but I do think it also brings out the best in his personality that, at heart, he really cares; he just wants us all to be happy so that he’ll do whatever and the minute if I said anything about “I’m not happy” or “you should leave your job” he would do it. But it’s not— I wouldn’t want people to think, oh my God her husband is the most perfect person and always around. I mean— of course. I hate when people paint a picture like everything is so perfect and blah blah blah. It’s not. But it’s a situation that works for us. There’s no resentment. There’s no— of course he doesn’t do his share but I don’t need him to do his share. Honestly I’d rather do it— I don’t need him to try to do drop off one day, like, I don’t need him to do that. I’m fine. It wouldn’t go well anyway.

6. I think when you’re a couple with someone lack of compromise isn’t that— or— compromise isn’t as hard when it’s just between two people I think. My husband and I were raised pretty differently I would say— not in a bad way— but he’s a child of divorced parents. There’s not a lot of family activity there on his mom’s side and I was always in a room with like 30 cousins at any given time. I think that now the decisions that we make together are more about what we want for our kids and not necessarily what I would care about for myself. So I’ll give you an example. This is pretty personal: my husband is type A 100%. There’s this personality test you can take it’s called the DISC and basically there’s 4 components D-I-S-C and the Ds are supposed to be— D is for dominant and you’re type A, relentless people and he is basically the highest D that there is in the scale. And as a result of that these people tend to be very abrasive. They have no room for compromise and it’s like— this is the way it is and I don’t care what you think kind of thing. And when we were together I was like alright, I don’t care. But now I find well, okay, this is what you think and I know that you feel this way but I feel differently. And my conviction to how this is going to affect our kids— now I’m forced to reckon with it. Now we really have to deal with it. And I think this was more of a challenge earlier on when we first starting to be parents. It was harder because before it was like whatever : laissez faire, let’s do whatever, I don’t care. And now I’m a little bit more, like, committed to how my kids are going to end up. So we got into a little bit of butting heads— clashing on things— and it’s forced us to be better communicators. And it was a learning process. We had some times where I was like I can’t. I’m outta here. This is not good for the kids. I don’t want this. But actually because we are totally committed to being— again he’s a child of divorced parents— we both knew early on this is it: we are not getting a divorce. I do not care what happens we are sticking it out, and because of that commitment we have stuck out these very, very trying times that we’ve had where we couldn’t compromise and we didn’t know how to communicate. It’s improved; we communicate better now. It’s not perfect; we still argue, but it’s in the right direction. You have to. Otherwise if you know you can get out of it there’s nothing making you try harder. I don’t know.

7. What relationship? No. I mean I think it’s amazing because we’re very much a team now and I think it’s very much cliche. Obviously our conversations are no longer about the restaurants we want to try or the places we want to go to travel. If we’re talking about travel we’re talking about logistically what makes sense for the kids. We are always talking about the kids. I value him a lot more now for so many reasons. Just the basics that you take for granted probably before kids. The fact that I’m not having to worry about infidelity, the fact that I know that he wants the best for the kids. The fact that we’re on the same wavelength for our values and the values that we want to teach the kids and all of that strengthens the relationship, strengthens the closeness. It’s not like we, you know, have time to go on dates once a week or just the two of us; we don’t go on vacation without the kids. It’s definitely changed from that point of view and part of it’s just energy: who do I have time for? It is very much like a partnership for now and I think I’ve learned with time that none of this is permanent. So I really do believe that if you get through this, and assuming kids are fine and independent at some point, I think you can go back to that. I think you’ve got— there’ll be plenty of time later in life to— it’ll just be the two of us and I’m sure at that time we’ll be crying about having an empty nest.

I think it’s interesting, too, because as I talked about earlier when I was talking about reading the book, there’s probably more criticism now than there was before we had kids. Because before we had kids, I mean, we might bicker about little things like, “oh, I really was hoping you’d do this but you didn’t so I guess I’ll do it myself” type bickering whereas now I find myself, you know, as I read these books and as I touched upon earlier making these sacrifices, if he’s not doing the same, you know, or if he’s not putting the same level of effort or showing the same level of concern, you know, then I get upset about that. I’m like, well if I can make time for this then why can’t you? Don’t you care? And I think you learn with time that actually we show it and we do things in different ways; so for me I know that I’m gonna be the person worrying about: do their socks still fit and do they need new summer sandals and like, you know, he is not. But he is thinking about other things and thinking about forward planning and thinking about, you know, the admin and insurance things which I don’t. So I think you have to learn to operate as a team and know that one of you is going to be better at some things than others.

8. I love your questions. Well I think it’s different phases. So when they were a baby I think there’s a lot of fight because I always feel like I was doing more and because I was pregnant; he was not. So I know he was trying but he didn’t get hormone change, he didn’t deliver, go through the pain. I was so worried, like, is my kid breathing and he’s like, “yeah of course she’s breathing,” you know he’s worry free. So I think the first few years is always a struggle, you know, we’ll always have some moments but we figure it out I guess. That’s why we’re still together. And then later on as they grow older I definitely see my daughter is very a Daddy’s Girl even though my husband is not around a lot. But every time he came back or even when we talk online she always misses him; she’s always like Daddy, Daddy! So I can tell, you know, the Daddy figure is so important to help them build the character and everything. I think I lost track of your question.

So come back because I see his importance in their life so I start to appreciate the different role he’s playing. So maybe he’s not the caregiver, per se, because he’s not there. Even when he’s around, when he works in the city, he always came back late, you know, I can’t really depend on him for stuff. I can figure out the day to day ins and out but he is the one there to help them shape their character, be a Daddy figure. So then I start to appreciate that. I see that, appreciate that.

So now we’re sacrificing— maybe not a sacrifice going back to Shanghai— it’s a pretty good life. But we are making a big change for his career, his passion, and we’re willing to do that. I’m willing to do that for him, for the family. So I think we start to appreciate each other.

And also I think the fact that he’s been away I think it adds some value because you have to be of your own. I’m almost like a single parent but that help me, you know, learn— how do I handle different situations? I can pretty much run this ship now. In a sense it’s also good that I’m the boss; I can just make the decision. It can’t be even I don’t even ask for that anymore.

9. I rely on him so much more than I did before, for so much more. Just like, making sure things get done for the kids. I don’t even know how people do it by themselves— I just rely on him so much.

10. Well there’s a lot less personal time. I think that because we were also both working and because one of us at least is on the impatient side, I think that it can lead to some tension. People get tired and they get fatigued. And I do too; we’re both guilty of that. And you can kind of take it out on each other a little bit more easily, get more easily frustrated. I think there’s definitely that. And I think there’s definitely less romantic time too, so that can be a problem.

But it’s interesting because there’s also the other side of it, which is that I get to see him as a dad now. I think he gets to be a little bit more 3-dimensional. I get to see this other side of him and he— he was always playful around me too, singing and laughing, and my husband definitely is a very witty person and he also has a very high threshold for being playful. And that takes a lot of forms. And sometimes that’s with us, with my son and me; and sometimes it’s apart from us. My husband is definitely someone who needs a lot of personal down time just to be alone. So we kind of do struggle with that and I don’t know if there is such a thing as a balance. I don’t think there is. In our house it’s definitely much more like a seesaw that goes up and down. There’s never a point where the fulcrum is completely equal, where it feels totally harmonious. There’s days where it’s definitely tilting too much in the me and our son direction and maybe other days I feel like my husband is putting maybe a little too much time into himself, to be honest. But I think it’s interesting to see him as a parent. And I like seeing him as a dad. And sometimes I look at him and I see him being a dad and I think to myself: okay so when he gets a little bit short with me I can pull back and say okay that’s alright I get where he’s at he’s just tried. And so I think it makes you a little bit more tolerant of your spouse’s idiosyncrasies.

It also can be a strain. It’s both. There’s a positive side and there’s definitely a drawback side, and we’re definitely finding our way. Always just finding our way. And sometimes having a child brings out those differences a little bit more. For my husband, an ideal vacation is going to an all-inclusive resort like we just did, and that was fun. For me, because we’re a family now, it’s got a different dynamic; I like to do the tours. I like history. I want our son to be exposed to different cultures, different histories. I love that kind of vacation and so sometimes we have to take turns at which one wins out and usually we find a blend. Usually we do one a year that’s more all-inclusive and one that’s more history-based. In both those contexts we try to find things that our son will like too.

We definitely have our good moments and we definitely have our frustrated moments with each other. And that is exacerbated when you have a child. That’s just a reality. I think that’s a practical reality for all, you know, adults. Whether both partners are working or not I think there’s going to be tensions and frustrations that build up that each doesn’t know the other has had. I think the key is you just have to try to keep the lines of communication as open as possible so you don’t wait for a small problem to build up into a big one. And that’s never been a forte for me. And that’s a skill that I have to work on: not letting the little things that happen during the day build up into something bigger. I work on that. I’m not fully there yet. It’s definitely a struggle point for me.

Because we are different people we have different values. My husband and I grew up differently, different backgrounds. I mean, some similarities: we’re the same religion, and some similar values and some different values. And different interests. We have some things in common and some things not. My husband is great at sports. I’m not great at sports. I like certain sports. I like gymnastics; I like tennis. Lately I like soccer. And that’s one thing that we both started to like together is soccer. My husband loves soccer and I didn’t know that. So we kind of discovered that through being a family. We’re watching soccer now together. Things like that. I try to find— even where there’s differences— try to find the points where we have something in common.

I will never like football. I will never follow football. My brain does not understand; I don’t comprehend football. There’s something about it that completely eludes me. But soccer I get. And then we get our son watching it with us and we get excited and we watch it together. So I try to do that. Sometimes when I communicate with my husband I try to use sports analogies. I try to talk to him in his language. Men and women fundamentally communicate in different ways, I find. So I do try to find ways to communicate better but there’s definitely going to be moments where there’s friction and there are going to be arguments that come up. And I hate arguing; I hate it with a passion. And I hate yelling; I’m an anti-yeller. In his family there was yelling. He grew up with that. And to me, that’s the new form of hitting; I look at that like the new form of hitting. And so I try not to yell when he and I are arguing. But every once and a while you do lose it. And it’s going to happen.

11. So I married my best friend, so we were always a team player. I just found out a very different side of him that I always thought of him as a go-getter, somebody who wants— like, you know, I’ve never seen the softer part of him. That he can be vulnerable. When a child is sick, or the child wants something he really wants to do something for the kid. I’d never seen that side of him.

12. Mom: To me, my husband and I were only married a year; we got married in December and the following January she was born so it didn’t really change it. Because you’re pregnant nine months of that. So we sort of got married and started right away having a family. So our relationship really always involved three people. It was only after she left for college that we really started to really, you know, look at ourselves and our relationship and how to redefine it. I found we have a lot more in common than just: oh where does she have to be? And, you know, school things. And so it was nice to sort of have a natural point for us where we had to decide— what do we do now? We can’t go back all those years and do what we did then because that relationship was sort of an immature relationship; so we sort of had to define that again. Just the two of us and where we wanted to go.

Daughter: We were married for a long time before we had kids; we were married for five years. And I’m still in a little bit of a haze. So that my husband and I are like, what was it like before him? We know we went on trips— there’s pictures so that must’ve happened— But yeah, I think that it brought us closer in a lot of ways. When the baby was really little and colicky— not really colicky but he was crying a lot at night because that’s what newborns do— I remember thinking, saying to the baby, “you be nice, he’s a nice man. He’s a very nice man he’s getting up with you! Picking you up! Walking you around!” And I feel lucky. He is a really good father. But I knew that; I suspected as much. Or else I wouldn’t have wanted to— if I thought he was going to be lousy. No, but he’s great.

I think I feel lucky that we had— I mean there’s been a lot of stress and a lot of tears, you know, in learning how to take care of a baby. But we’ve also laughed a lot? We would laugh a lot at like, 3 AM or later when I would recount to him what had happened. Like once: he would wake up with a start, you know, when the baby was really little— less so now— but when he was really little we were both sleep-deprived and the baby would fall asleep on us and then we would move him into his crib. But sometimes my husband would wake with a start and say, “where’s the baby!?” Like we’d accidentally slept on top of him. I’d say, “he’s in his crib go back to sleep.” And once he woke up and he said, “oh where’s the baby?! Oh I got him” and I said, “No you’re holding a pillow” he said, “no, no I’m holding the baby” and I said, “no. No you’re holding a pillow.” So I feel like an element of the absurd has entered into our marriage for keeps now. We make up a lot of silly songs. We realize how absurd— like poopy diapers— how inappropriate they are in front of other people when they come into your house and you’re like [sings a song about poop] and you’re like: Oh! Oh there’s people here never mind. Keep that inside the family.

13. I don’t know if I’d say the relationship has fundamentally changed yet because it’s been such a short period of time but I definitely already feel like I’ve seen my husband in a different way— like in a capacity that I probably otherwise wouldn’t have had the chance to see him. And I see him showing his love language now in a totally different way. Our son is going to be 12 tomorrow; he is fully capable of putting together his own snacks for camp. But, like, my husband does it every night. Just because that’s his love language. He likes acts of service. He wants to wash your dishes and put your snacks in a little bag for camp. So it’s been sweet to see that part of him in a different way.

14. Ha. That’s funny. I just got my husband a Father’s Day card that listed all the things that were “before” versus all the things that were “after” like: taking joy rides and then carpooling and sleeping in and being up at the crack of dawn— how things have changed. What was the actual question? I think we’re definitely at that stage with two little kids now that we don’t spend as much time as I would like just the two of us working on our relationship. It’s definitely much more about the kids right now. I think we do try and make time when we can but a large part of that too is babysitters and that kind of thing. Since we have our family that watches the kids during the week I feel guilty asking them to watch on weekends and that kind of thing. But I would say we still try and have a date night every— it ends up being once a month it seems like these days.

But it is interesting. I feel like we’ve definitely evolved and, like I said, he is so hands-on and I’m so appreciative of that because I see a lot of my friends’ husbands who are not that way and I just don’t know how they can do it. It’s such a team effort I think to raise children. I think I appreciate him, even though we don’t get the quality time so much, I still really appreciate him. And I think I appreciate him more than I did before now that I see what he does. And sometimes you have to stop and think about it. I would say less quality time but I do appreciate him more. And I do appreciate— when we do have a date night or something it’s that much better if that makes sense. And I also think we both really enjoy doing stuff as a family, which is nice, when we do both have time off at the same time.

15. That’s interesting. I think it’s made our relationship so much better because I really feel like we both appreciated each other in a different way. I never felt that sense of romance goes out the window. I don’t know if he would answer the same way. I never felt the sense of withdrawal of feeling like my relationship with my husband was so different now. And I don’t know if that’s necessarily because we worked hard on keeping the spark alive or something. I just feel like we both really love being parents and I feel like this is kind of a Pollyanna answer because it sounds like I’m just like, “everything is great!” But what actually has been really difficult or challenging is that we were raised very differently so we had different views on all kinds of parenting things. There are times that we really butt heads. And we’ve been very careful about how that plays out for the kids. We don’t argue about styles in front of the kids but we will argue about them otherwise. To some degree that’s because we don’t agree with how the other one was raised? This is not all styles were created equal; that’s actually just wrong— But I actually think that’s been a productive thing because as we’ve worked through them I think that we’ve realized we’re really on the same page about a lot of things. It’s also about training ourselves that being the best parent doesn’t necessarily mean parenting like our parents. Like, it’s not a competition; we’re just trying to raise good kids.

I think in some cases and I’m not saying who, but it wasn’t me, you might not think that the way your parents did it was the right way but it’s still ingrained in you because it’s how you were raised so it’s this natural reflex to respond certain ways? So that’s a fun training exercise. Therapy. Lots of therapy. I’m a lover of therapy I think it’s great.

16. I feel like this is something I talk about with all my friends. So I feel like there’s nothing sexy about parenthood. Again, not better not worse just different. Your priority is sort of shifted to the well-being of your kids. I mean you have a newborn that comes home; they basically have no neck for 6 months, right? They can’t breathe, they look like everything’s a struggle to them. Are they breathing? Are they suffocating? Are they hungry? Are they wet? It’s like everything is for the little person.

It just changed a little bit. But I think you have to go through it together. It’s sort of like a phase, right? We don’t go out for dinner that much alone. We should. Especially moving here: we don’t have a sitter anymore, we don’t know anybody here really. How does it change? It’s just busier. You have to carve out moments in time for each other. Even if it’s a wink from across the room or just maybe trying to appreciate the little things. But I think acknowledging them is huge, too. If you feel under-appreciated it’s awful. And then it just creates tension. When he was working— and I’m a stay at home mom now— and when I was getting up in the middle of the night with the kids and he’d be sleeping peacefully I’d stare at him and be like I want to fucking smother you with the pillow because you can get up too. We can share in this a little bit. But you have to have fun. It’s just different. It’s just a little different. I don’t know how it changes, it just does. There’s nothing that, like, [snaps] happens it just sort of happens. And I think it happens to everyone because I have these conversations with all of my friends. It’s just different and you don’t know why but maybe it’s just the way women are hardwired to just say, “you’re a grown ass man – figure it out and let me deal with the kids.”

17. I mean my poor husband. I would say it’s gotten harder because I feel like I— my husband has said, “you tell me what you need, like, you think of yourself as the CEO of our family and tell me what you need” and I don’t want to. I want him to just know but he doesn’t know because even if he does do it sometimes I’m like that wasn’t right; that wasn’t the way I wanted it. He really can’t win in this situation right now. So we really just keep telling ourselves— and it’s gotten better— that we know we’re going to get out of this. But it’s definitely more of me telling him what to do than it being like an equal partnership and I don’t like— I never liked telling my husband what to do. I never liked that kind of relationship. I wasn’t in charge of him when we were married; we were very equal. He’s very opinionated. And the problem is the more power I get the more I abuse it. Which is why I can’t date a guy or marry a guy who would allow me to walk all over him because I would if given the chance; it’s not a good trait of mine but it’s something I would do. Whereas my husband doesn’t allow that. He’s good and he’s easy-going so generally if I really feel strongly about something, and I tend to feel strongly about more things than he does, he’s like, “that’s fine.” But if he does feel strongly about it we’re going to have a conversation about it and I’m not always going to get my way. Whereas I feel like the shift has been I’m just telling him what to do and he’s doing it and that I don’t love​.

18. I think that in some ways in my marriage my husband’s career had always been center stage; even though I was a professional also, he had this super important job of being a doctor and saving people’s lives and his hours were crazy and so our lives revolved around his career. We moved for it; we moved for all his training. And then when we had a child that kind of had to be readjusted a little bit because as an early mom I wanted our life to revolve around her needs and he still had his crazy schedule and work life that wasn’t changing. So we’ve had to adjust to that over time and now we’re in a good rhythm but it took awhile.

19. That’s such a loaded question. To be honest there’s just totally less sex. I am busy and I am tired. But we try to make date night at least twice a month. It’s matured in one way. I think I’ve become more like him which I don’t necessarily enjoy because I’m a mover and shaker: I love to go out, I love to be outside. And he’s more of a homebody so I’ve adjusted more to his lifestyle which leads me feeling a little— like I have to scratch my head like— what’s happening? So I think he’s probably very happy that I’m home more, that I expect less of him maybe? That I’m not saying, “let’s go see a show!” So it’s changed, but it’s evolving. It’s a constant thing that you hope you grow and you keep communicating and appreciating. It’s a moment. I try to think it’s a moment in time and it won’t be like this forever. And I’ve also become— I lean on my friends more. I try to make more time to be out with my good friends when I can so that I don’t expect him to fulfill everything that I used to expect him to. I try to get it from different places.

20. It has made me fall in love with my husband all over again. I always knew he would be an amazing father, but seeing him in action and how patient and caring he is with the kids is just incredible. He is truly an equal partner, and the bond we have from creating these little people is just amazing.

21. So we decided— we made a pact— when we were coming home from the hospital that we were not going to compare sleep and we were not going to compare diaper changes. So we’re not going to be like, oh well I was up this much last night! And I think that was a really good rule because suffering is relative but it’s easy when you’re tired and you’re cranky to be like, “well I was up all night and you don’t get how uncomfortable I am.” And at first when my husband would be like, “oh I’m so tired” I would be like, “ugh” in my head, like don’t even talk to me about that. But no. He is tired. Just because I feel tired doesn’t mean he doesn’t get to feel his feelings. So I think it’s been good because we’ve had to be more— not that we weren’t honest and direct before— but I just feel like more compassionate with each other and take care of each other and we were good at that anyway but I think we just took it for granted. And also sex. Making time for that. And time to connect. I remember saying before he was born— maybe I read it— we’re going to spend 15 minutes every day of uninterrupted time just talking to each other not about the baby. But it’s like that’s literally not possible right now because one person is always with the baby. So I feel like our relationship is stronger and I love him more and I love seeing him as a dad; I think it’s so cool. But I’m not a snappy person and there is something about being sleep-deprived that makes you want to snap so it’s been like— just effort.

22. Well, before I had my first daughter we were together every second except when we were at work; we did everything together. Every single thing we did together. Once she was born I spent a lot more time with her. We still spent a lot of time together but I spent more time with her so I wasn’t spending every minute with him.

23. Mis prioridades.

24. I think it is stronger. But I think we really have to work at it. I’ve always sort of known that just like watching my parents work at it and just seeing a lot of other relationships around me but I don’t think I understood. But I could totally see how— like when people say, “but then we had a kid—” you’re like, if you’re not in a good spot before you have a kid it is not going to get better. And I think I value him a lot more even than I did before. I think he’s a pretty unusual person in general but just recognizing— and I could complain about the dumb stuff he does: he’ll leave like a drop— and we can joke about it because we’re in a really good place— but it’s just the sort of thing where, like, I can see how in a decade someone gets divorced over like a drop of water left in the water bottle that you don’t put in the recycling. But next to it. Because some days I think it’s funny— most days. But also I show him how I think it’s funny. And I was like, I could put a whole Instagram of things and I’d call it “Where My Husband Puts It” and like I’ll take a picture of like, the key bowl and he’ll put them right next to it and I’ll show it to him and I’ll be like I’m not criticizing you; it’s just really interesting to me. And he’s like it is funny that I do that. But I could also see if we were in a bad place where that would be a real pain point for both of us. But we’re not so it’s just funny. But I think it’s actually made me appreciate— to be able to laugh at things like that—‚ as long as I’m able to step back and look at all the other things that he does for our family. I don’t like when people are like, “he helped.” I’m like, he’s not helping; he’s a participant. This isn’t my family and he’s in it. This is our family and he is a full on— we are partners. So if he wasn’t I think it would be harder for me.

I will say it’s hard— I have to remind myself to be affectionate to him. Because I’m spending all day hugging and kissing the kids and the dogs and like he comes home and, like, turns out I don’t have a finite amount of hugs and kisses but like I have to remember. You’re touched all day. Someone needs something from you or is touching you or is whatever— expecting something— you’re just spending a lot of time giving. So that’s something that again— work. Just remind myself— like the patience thing— I have to remind myself to be patient with him. I need to remind myself that he doesn’t know what it’s like to be asked of and needed and touched all day and whatever. And that if I want something from him I have to give it to him too. I think our relationship is great and I know he does too. Not perfect and not without argument but definitely stronger. But I do often think I see how it can devolve and quickly. And then you’re like— what happened? There are some days when you’re like, I love this person so much; I can’t imagine ever not feeling this way and then 3 days later I’ll be like, you are the worst fucking person; I cannot believe we’re married. And then I remember I just loved him so much like 3 days ago how do I get back to that?

​25. Yeah. Not that it’s a loaded question but it’s made me love him a lot more for seeing how wonderful he is with the girls and he’s such a good dad and he’s so much fun. But also there’s certain— well, there’s certain things that are intuitive for mothers that it’s like how did you not know just do— this—like I feel I’m quick and easily frustrated with him on things like before we had kids it would be like whatever it didn’t bother me. I have less patience with him. I feel like after I had our first there was one time maybe a month or two in where I’m like I have a child now I no longer take care of you where this is concerned. It may have been the first time I got sick and he had to take care of her all by himself and I was like, I don’t know why you think you can’t handle this; she’s not that difficult. I guess it brought to light how much I took care of him before I had a baby. I was great to you. You were like my baby. But you’re not a baby. You know what I mean? I am quicker to get frustrated with him on certain things and I don’t understand, like, why after having 2 why anyone would think that having a baby would save a marriage, because if anything, it just brings to light little quirks that maybe before didn’t bother you but now you’re like I’m not going to put up with that because now I have to put up with this over here. They actually depend on me. So yeah.

Before I went into the hospital with my second I had to write out a meal prep food chart for my older daughter for school. My husband was like, what do you pack her for A.M. snack? Because the day care we take her to you have to supply all the bottles, all the food. He’s like, how many water bottles do I need? I’m like, you do drop off every day so you’re the one unpacking her bag. You’ve never counted, oh, there are 4 water bottles here? Or like she always seems to have a banana and some cheese for A.M. snack because that’s what she likes? You’ve never noticed? Okay here we go. So I literally had to write out like a week and a half food chart while I was in the hospital and he would still call me at night and be like okay so I’m just gonna do, like, peanut butter and jelly for the next day and I’m like, Jesus Christ, where’s the sheet of paper? I tacked it on the board. I put it on the board! Oh, and dinners too. I did dinners.

​26. Well we have less time to just the two of us. And we spend a lot of the time that we do have talking about and planning for the kids.

27. If it was possible I appreciated him more and more and more; he was just the best partner in the whole world. The best husband. The most considerate. The most understanding. I felt very, very lucky. And still do.

Kids change things, amiright? Not just in terms of your relationship with your significant other but in terms of your relationships with friends, family, and strangers. In what ways did your relationships change? And perhaps more significantly:

Coming up: How did becoming a mother change you?

I want to eat that so much.

I think I should change the name of my blog to 20 Minutes After Bedtime because that’s about as much time as my brain will function after the kids are asleep. Thoughts?

It’s surprisingly easy to be vegan. I’m not into complicated recipes – the more steps the more mess and I wouldn’t exactly call myself highly motivated to clean up. I currently hold the state championship for tolerance for dirty dishes piled in the sink, on the counters, on top of the toaster – wherever. So a nice simple one pot recipe is what I’m looking for – maybe two pots. That’s what I had tonight – a two pot soup. I found the recipe for Scottish Red Lentil (and Barley) Soup at christinascucina.com. It’s not a vegan website but I figured it wouldn’t be hard to alter it and it wasn’t.

My husband loves lentils and barley and all sorts of things from the British Isles like Islay whiskey, rain, and tartan, so I figured I couldn’t go wrong. Time will tell as he arrived only moments ago and is currently reading a 14th story to my middle son who napped from three to five and will subsequently be awake until exactly 5 minutes before the baby wakes up in the morning…

It wasn’t hard to veganize this recipe as it simply required substituting vegetable stock for the beef. Today I used store bought because I used up the homemade stock the other day. Can I just say here how easy it is to make vegetable stock? Take all the scraps you create from peeling carrots and cutting the leafy bits off celery. Throw in an onion and whatever other vegetable rejects you have, fill the pot with water and boil until you remember that you have a pot on the stove filled with boiling vegetables -if you’re like me that’s generally 5 or 6 hours later or when my husband says “is something cooking?” Even easier is cooking the stock overnight in a slow cooker. Unless you store your slow cooker on a high shelf and can’t be bothered to take it down OR unless you saw This is Us. Just saying.

Also, in trying to follow the How Not to Die (HNTD) guidelines, I skipped the added salt aside from what was already in the (reduced sodium) vegetable stock. The soup was yellowish so I threw in some turmeric because it’s supposed to be amazing for you. Also I threw in a secret spice that she doesn’t mention but it turned it from something very good to something ridiculously good. Saffron. In the past when using saffron I’ve taken literally one strand of the stuff and put it into whatever I’m making. Because it costs about as much as our mortgage. But this saffron has now made at least two moves with us and I figured it was time to bite the bullet and actually use an entire capsule, which is what the directions say. Let me just say. Yum.

So my husband walked downstairs (followed moments later completely unsurprisingly by our son on the search for medicine to make his tummy and elbow feel better) and looked on the stove, saw the soup and declared, “Oh my God I want to eat this so much.” Thank you Christinas Cucina and saffron distributors everywhere. Bon appetit!

Deconstruction

We live in an up-and-coming area of town. Most of the original houses around here were built sometime in the middle of last century, many relatively small compared to the rest of town. The owners of these houses have lived in them forever. They probably got married and then moved into these houses. They had their children in these houses. Now their children have grown up and moved away and they remain because their friends are all here and because they’ve lived here for their entire adult lives and because our town is a great town and our neighborhood the best of the best (#biased)(as I’m reading this through I realize “biased” might not be an awesome hashtag but I can’t erase it because I want you see how my brain works sometimes).  The location couldn’t be better – a mile or less from the center of town, which is walkable but far enough away to breathe. We can walk to all of the schools. The sounds of Friday night football games resonate throughout the streets creating a classic small-town vibe that you might expect to find in the Midwest but probably not in the suburbs of a big city. The neighbors are friendly, the schools are great, the highways are close but not close enough to hear. So it’s no wonder everyone wants to move here and no one wants to leave once they’ve arrived.  But sadly, no one wants to move into one of these small, old houses.  I’m not criticizing – I felt the same way.  We’re an obnoxious generation in many ways –  #genHGTV – we expect big and shiny.  We want marble countertops that won’t stain. Stainless steel that will hold a magnet. Blue-stone patios that lead to a fenced-in yard.  I don’t blame us – we know these things are possible because a lot of shows tell us it’s possible. Either we can buy a house that’s already perfect or we can fix it up ourselves and come in under budget.  Right?

Well – this neighborhood is prime Fixer Upper territory.  The houses are just not big enough or new enough to survive.  So they’re being demolished and replaced by big, new houses.  I know because I live in one of the new houses and because since we’ve lived here 4 more have popped up right on our street.  The parallel street had 4 new constructions all for sale at the same time over the summer.  And driving up the street to drop the kids off at school today I noticed another one on our street being knocked down.

This house belonged to a family.  All the happiness and the birthdays and the how tall are you now ticks on the wall.  All the fights and the screaming and the unwarranted (or warranted) sass from children far too young to be sassy.  Every memory, every boyfriend, every girlfriend.  You know for a fact many a mix tape was made in that house. Many a treadmill not walked on.  Many a plate of vegetables fed to the dog. And now it’s being torn down.  Yes – a new house will be built with a new family and new memories.  No – tearing down the house doesn’t erase the memories.  But – it took months for the house to be built and many years to build the memories and within a few hours the whole thing was gone.  I find this to be extremely sad.

Maybe I’m feeling especially sentimental today because it’s my son’s birthday – he’s 5. Five!  It’s hard to wrap my brain around that one.  He told me in the car on the way home from school that he wanted a cake shaped like the Tortuga from Wild Kratts.  Well??? How good is this rainbow Tortuga? Did I whip that together or what?

And wait till you see the candles –

Is this a #momfail? or a #momwin? 4 children in the house but no birthday candles to be found.  This is because we ran out of Shabbat candles so we had to use birthday candles in their place – now we’ve run out of birthday candles and I pulled out the skinny tapers my parents gave us that they bought some time in the 1970s. Possibly they received them as part of a wedding present.  Or possibly they got them at a quaint department store that’s since been demolished and replaced by a bigger, shinier department store.  In any case the 5 year old thought they were pretty cool and even though the cake looks like something you’d tell your 10 year old you’re proud of her for making it tasted good and I should know because I ate most of the scraps. NO it wasn’t vegan #cakedoesn’tcount. But I did just eat a slice of tofeatloaf – you know you’re having food envy right about now.

 

 

 

 

…..And we’re back.

Have you ever closed your eyes and opened them only to find that 9 months has passed (past?)? The last time I wrote was April. April of 2018. It’s officially 2019 and I’m hanging my head in shame that I haven’t managed to write a single word.  What I have managed to do is cancel my subscription boxes of clothes. Because I’m not a person who needs subscription boxes to go shopping.  I like to personally go into a store and manhandle every coat, every shirt, every scarf, every shoe.  I like the process of going into Bloomingdale’s and trying on 25 pairs of jeans.  I love to try on coat after coat analyzing which hoods are furry enough but not too furry.  I adore the smell of the beauty counters and the perfume samples and the sight of children running that aren’t mine because I’ve left them in the capable hands of (school, the grandparents, the nanny). The mall is my default.  I walk the mall for fun.  I don’t also need boxes of clothes delivered every month.  Which is why I subscribed to Hygge box.  A box for people who enjoy that trendy and ever just out of reach Danish concept of coziness.  It didn’t send me clothes it sent me things! But it turns out I really like to buy things too.  I love to pick out great earthenware mugs and if I want a cuppa tea I’m happy with my decaf lady grey, thanks.  I don’t need someone to send me fuzzy socks in a box because truth be told they probably won’t fit my feet anyway (#bigfootproblems).  So I canceled my hygge box subscription too. And my birch box subscription because – well remember how I like beauty counters?  I already spend all of my husbands hard-earned money on furnishing my vanity with every la mer product known to man.  I don’t also need to spend even $10 a month on samples of beauty products I will literally never use.  I haven’t gotten up the nerve to cancel my fab fit fun subscription.  In fact I’ve upgraded it to the option where you get to customize your quarterly box of goodies.  Okay so from the latest box I have used exactly one item (the jade face roller thing that is either all the rage or only seems to be all the rage because google is creepy and sponsored ads are everywhere) for – you guessed it, every day for a week and then never again. Should I cancel fabfitfun? Probably.  Will I? Time will tell.  I sense a box reveal in the not-too-distant-future.

What else have I done since April you ask? Well I have binged every episode of Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, Lewis, The Tudors, The White Queen, Versailles, Elizabeth I: The Virgin Queen, The Durrells in Corfu, Mr. Selfridge, and many other shows I can’t remember.  Also Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, Paw Patrol and Wild Kratts but only because at 5am when I stumble downstairs still sleeping and my kids ask if they can watch a show before I’ve had a chance to inject caffeine into my veins the answer is always “uh yeah whatever i’m just gonna be over here ignoring the fact that my bladder is seconds away from bursting because I’m afraid if I get up the baby will take it as a sign that I want to be up and moving about the house and he’ll ask me for breakfast and to play with the sink and…what’s that? You don’t actually care? The show is already on? So yeah. One show, eight shows.  Good times.

What else?  Well, I bought all the supplies for refurbishing old furniture and – didn’t. I suddenly became obsessed with luxury designer handbags, much to the distress of my ever-tolerant and obliging husband. I joined a gym and went every day for a week and then never again for the subsequent 3 (I joined in December trying to preempt the New Years challenge buzz.  I figured if I signed up early I might trick myself into actually sticking with it – whereas New Years’ resolutions to go the gym are begging to be broken.  I think it’s actually a law in some states.).  Also I challenged myself and all of my 2 friends on Goodreads who might notice to read 52 books in 2019 (will be re-reading all Bill Bryson, all Harry Potter, and throwing in some Crazy Rich Asians). And I became vegan.

Well when I say I became vegan what I mean to say is that 2 weeks ago I read the book How Not To Die by Dr. Michael Greger and became sufficiently convinced to stop eating animal products.  I will say no more since I hate preachy preachiness but it’s a thought-provoking book and worth a look.

Well I will say more but just a little. I really don’t care what anyone else eats (except the people I have control over like my children – Ha. Ha. Control is a funny thing and definitely not something I have when it comes to what my children put in their mouths.) And so I will not expect anyone else to cut out meat, eggs, milk, cheese, etc.  You may eat it all to your heart’s content and I’m not convinced given the right circumstances I wouldn’t too – not sure I can say no to Hibachi steak. And I sure do love the full English breakfast from Tea and Sympathy.

I may have a hard time saying no to an aged gouda.  But generally for the most part I feel like this is a change I could make in my life.  Look at this food:

…and tell me you wouldn’t eat it.  Okay but tell me it doesn’t look pretty.

Really it all started when a mom friend of mine invited me over to eat her leftover vegetarian chili and I didn’t vomit when I ate it. True. Just about any moment in time from birth until a month ago if you had asked me to eat vegetarian chili I would have said thanks but no thanks. The truth is I just felt that a meal without meat or cheese or both was just no meal at all.  But the chili wasn’t just not-vomitable it was really good and downright satisfying.  My world was rocked and it made the lessons from How Not To Die a bit more – palatable.  (Ha. Ha.)  I’m officially a semi-committed but very well-meaning vegan. And everyone reading – all 8 of you (hi mom and dad!) – have my permission to ask me if I’m still semi-committed in a few weeks.

Meanwhile I am not pregnant (a question you may have asked yourself if you know me even a little AND a question I have been asked several times in the past year – (oh, hi, gym membership.))

And with those updates and that somewhat abrupt ending – until next time –

Me.