Mom Talk – Part 14

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  Taking selfies so I can choose a featured image. First attempt: looking thoughtful

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  Pretending to smile at someone like we’re having a fabulous conversation

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  Deciding that maybe the most important thing to show is the size of my coffee cup. #jarsofdust

Question: What didn’t I ask you that you would have thought I would have asked? What didn’t you get a chance to say?

What questions didn’t I ask? A dozen that I can think of. Hundreds that are waiting in the deep recesses of my brain to be thought of. For the time being, read on.

Answers:

1. No I think you got everything.

2. I think you covered everything.

3. I would have thought you would have asked me about advice I would give to certain people on certain things. I think that’s really interesting to hear people’s advice because everyone comes from such different backgrounds and different marriages and different kids. There’s so many elements between, you know, the relationship with the spouse or work or all these different things. The balance. I think a big topic of conversation, especially in my world, is the juggle— the balance— work/life balance. That topic comes up almost every day in my life with people. So talking about how motherhood affects work, how you identify yourself— your own identity and how motherhood affects that. Most people have had kids in their late 20s or 30s so you have worked— you’ve built some career— how children affect that. Something that you identified with for so long, that you’ve worked so hard for, and how motherhood affects that. That to me is a very big topic of conversation that should always be addressed because it does affect it for anyone who had kids a little bit later.

Unfortunately today, it’s 2019, you have to accept the fact that it ain’t fair. It’s just not fair. It’s all gonna fall on you. The men cannot have the babies. You have to have the baby—that’s just how it is. You have to be pregnant, you have to have the baby, you have to recover from it. You’re in charge of that and no one can change a damn thing about it and you have to accept the fact that it’s basically like working while you are sick: you are not at 100% during that pregnancy— you’re just not— and you’re certainly not at 100% after the pregnancy and your priorities change and things change and things shift but that doesn’t mean it’s the end of the road. It doesn’t mean its the end of your career. Careers don’t have to be linear. There are options out there if you want to switch gear or you want to take your career down a few notches there are options. You just have to explore them. It’s not all or nothing anymore.

And here’s the other thing I like to talk about because people don’t talk about it enough— and some people will get mad at me for saying this but not many. My opinion, and I think the opinion of many other people, is that you cannot be a great CEO, a great mother, a great friend and a great wife all at the same time; I just don’t believe that. Something’s gotta give. So if you’re the CEO— and that’s an extreme— any sort of big, big major job that’s very demanding and very prestigious— there’s no way you’re also the best mom in the world. I’m sorry, you have to travel. You can be a loving mother but you’re certainly not the most hands-on because it’s impossible. Oh wait and there’s a spouse too. And that person needs your love and attention and a date night and, you know, compassion; and he’s had quite a day also. Unless he’s the stay-at-home dad and that’s another dynamic. But the point is you can’t be it all so something’s gotta give and you have to make choices sometimes and when you have small children, which one’s gonna give? Oh wait and then your girlfriends want to hang out too and you don’t want to lose those friendships so there’s all these things pulling at you. So for people who think you can lean in and have it all, I honestly think it’s bullshit. I don’t believe that at all. Sorry, I know that book sold a lot of copies. I’m sorry. That only works for a very narrow kind of person. I’ve been in the corporate world for a long time. I have my own business; I know what’s what. The women who are in their 40s in big time jobs— they are not the same types of mothers that they want to be. They feel guilty all the time. There’s only so many hours of the day. Oh wait and you have to also throw in self-care like working out. But it’s all a balance. People constantly ask me— I don’t know why they ask me this— it’s really interesting, “are you working, like, part time?” I’m like, I have a full time business; this isn’t a hobby— it’s full time. But it’s my version of full time and the hours are spread out. My older son’s last day of school is on Tuesday and I want to be there to pick him up and that’s in the middle of the day. So I blocked out three hours of time in the middle of the day but I’ll catch up either that night after he goes to sleep or I’ll catch up the next day.

I don’t want the time to pass and I don’t want the day to come where I look back and it is too late. I never wanted to regret not trying to create something, to create a legacy, to create something that has meaning and that has meaning to me.

Not everyone feels this way; this is just me. I always say to my friends who are stay-at-home moms: I wish I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom because I have the privilege, if I wanted, to be a stay-at-home mom— to be able to do that— and I don’t want to be. I sometimes feel guilty because I don’t want to be but at the same time I don’t feel guilty. As it is now, the time I have with my kids I enjoy because I appreciate it. Because I have other things going on and I work. But I think if I were a stay-at-home mom I would not feel as appreciative of the time I have with them and I don’t think my marriage would be as strong. And eventually, by the way, they go to school and then eventually they leave and then what? That was always my fear – that time will come so fast and then what am I doing? Then what am I doing with myself? So. I think this is a common conversation that people have. Men don’t have to have these conversations, but women do.

4. What might be interesting for a book like this is to talk about how motherhood might maybe affect professional life or career development. Maybe not?

5. I don’t think there’s anything else I was thinking you would ask. I really didn’t know what we were doing. Is that okay? Anything else? I feel like once this baby comes I could have a lot more things to say. I mean I just hope it’s healthy. But if it’s not it would be a whole other chapter of my book.

6. Do I like my kids? No I’m kidding. How do I— maybe not every mother feels like they need to escape motherhood— but how do I escape motherhood when I need to? Because I definitely need to. And that is just hiding somewhere. Going to yoga. And also I would say, you know, how has my husband’s approach at being a father affected my approach at being a mother? I think there’s a misconception sometimes that men don’t pull their fair share and that’s a very antiquated concept I feel like. I think it was true in the Baby Boomer generation. I think this generation of dads, at least from what I’ve seen, but personally and around me, dads are really pulling their weight at home. And I think thinking about being a parent when I was young versus what that has turned into now, it really is a team effort.

It’s funny. It’s more so about women’s natural ability to organize and prioritize maybe. That was one of the biggest points of contention between my husband and me when we first had kids it was— from the Break Up— “I don’t need you to do the dishes; I need you to want to do the dishes.” We want not only the physical labor to be unburdened but we want the mental labor that’s required to do all these things like the Christmas cards or— we have not yet sent out the we’ve moved cards— or the medical forms for camp and little things that get piled up. I’m trying to shift it in that direction but also, and I think about this too: when we first started living together I had a condo and I just didn’t want to be a landlord anymore so I moved out of my condo and we rented it out and I was like, yeah I want nothing to do with this. Here you go. And now he handles that and he handles all of the finances and he handles all of the, you know, when we are finally ready to sell our house he’s going to do all of it. So I forgive him a little bit. I also understand that he’s got his own other things that he’s worried about that he’s better suited to do. So if I have to tell him sometimes, “hey, you have to clean out the garage” it’s fine. But it is a little frustrating because I’m like can’t you just read my mind? Just read my mind. Just get it from in there please.

If I say to my husband, “I’m going to hot yoga and you can’t stop me like, bye, peace out—” I used to worry about well what is he going to do with the kids? Is he going to feed them? And I’ve gotten to the point where— well the kids have gotten a little older and they can say what they want— but like I just go. In fact I just go a lot. When it’s my mom or my husband’s mom or my husband I’m like: figure it out. If they’re hungry, they’ll tell you. Just give them some water. Just make sure they don’t dehydrate and we’re good. So I’m a little less neurotic about micromanaging their things. My mom is not. So funny story. My mom had something where she couldn’t be with us for a week so my husband’s mom stayed with us for a week and got them off to school. My mother made a list: “She will only eat x, y and z” and she made a whole list. And do you know what I did when she left? I threw it in the garbage. And I’m like to my mother-in-law: you got this. I’m sure you’ll know what to make them for lunch. If they don’t like it, they won’t eat it and they’ll eat when they come home.

It was fine; everyone was fine. The funny thing about my mom— she spends every single day with the girls but they like what they like because she manages it for them but my husband’s mom has a completely different way of doing it and she does different things and I can’t let my mom impose on her or me. Because my mom’ll tell me, “this one doesn’t like x, y, z” and I’m like, really? Well she’s gonna eat it or she’s gonna starve. So that’s been interesting. People will figure it out. I said to somebody because we were having a conversation about are we going to hold a kid back? I will face that challenge or that decision with my younger daughter because she was born in September. “Are you gonna hold her back?” “I don’t know, I guess I’ll see when I get there.” “Because there have been studies done about x, y, z” and I’m like, our kids will be fine just by virtue of the fact that they’re our kids; we care— we care so much— and this decision— even if it turns out she has a bad time in second grade because of something— I’m not going to go back and be like it’s because I didn’t send her early or late or whatever. They’re gonna be fine.

The other thing I’ll tell you I think is funny. I was talking to a cousin of mine. Long story short, she was very coddled by her parents when she was little and she and I are the same age. It sucks but she went through a rough time. She got married to someone she shouldn’t have gotten married to, he left her, she was like depressed for a long time, she went through bouts and bouts of depression and now she blames her mom because her mom always coddled her. And I’m like— all of our parents did the best they could; they all did what was right. You can’t have resentment towards her because she didn’t let you fail or didn’t let you do this. Now you’ve gotta get over it because you’re 38. But I did say my mom was always very self-centered when she was young. This is a new mom that I have now; she’s amazing to her grandkids. To me and my sister she was kind of never present. Not that I’m throwing her under the bus or anything. She was cool and she was strict but she was not present all the time. My dad did a lot of the parenting, a lot of the cooking at home. But I said to my cousin: you know, there’s something to be said for a little bit of neglect. We can’t go and micromanage our kids lives. If my older daughter gets a teacher that’s not highly regarded I’m not gonna go in and fight for her to get the right teacher because you know what? It might do her some good. A little neglect goes a long way. And I hate to say it that way— it sounds so dismissive, but kids’ll figure it out. None of this is going to scar them for life. Everything will be fine.

Perfectionism was a childish— something childish I held onto for a long time. I still try to do things really well; I still bring my best. But that notion that I had to be perfect to other people is what I let go of. Always, all of this comes with forgiveness of myself. Am I always going to do the right thing? No. And I just have to be okay with that. I forgive myself for yelling. Like this morning. My older daughter is very rigid. She tried on three different outfits even after we picked an outfit last night to go gymnastics camp; she didn’t like it because it was a tad big. And I lost my mind and I yelled at her; we got into a huge fight and she was crying and it didn’t go well. Later I’ll apologize. But I didn’t handle that well. But then again we’re all trying to get ready in the morning and it’s gonna go crazy so I just have to forgive myself for it. Or, like, I work a lot and I travel a lot and I have my younger daughter that says, “Mommy, can you play with me?” And I can’t because I have to get on a conference call or I have to leave or I have to do something and we’re all just trying to do the best we can so I try to forgive myself often. And maybe that line about neglect is part of me just rationalizing that for myself, but I also do believe it. I do believe it. I hope this was helpful.

8. I love your questions. I really love them because I feel like I never had the time to reflect on this motherhood— never. You just have to keep going; you don’t even have time to think about it, to reflect on it. And really this should come back every once and awhile. I think you should go back to these women, to me, in 2 years because it will change and the story will only be better.

9. When are you most stressed? Or when do you feel like you’re lacking as a parent? Right? Some negative stuff. You asked a lot of positives. For me, when I feel like I can’t be there for them when I want to be there. Like last week was end of school stuff so you’re making a priority to be at the school event, the party, but it’s also the last day of gymnastics and there’s a parent thing that day and the last day of swimming also in that week and you just can’t make it all; that’s when I get really stressed out because it impacts them. And I see it.

So I pick the ones I can go to; I try to make sure my husband can go to something or the two of us are at the most important things together. Because it’s also hard when you go to an event and both parents are there and your spouse isn’t. And we just try to do our best.

Most dads in this town work, some moms don’t. So they expect that the dad won’t be there to all these things but they expect that the mom will be there. So I’m constantly reinforcing that you know: Mommy works. Mommy has a great job and it’s a good thing for Mom and for you and Mommy will always get to as much as she can get to. And it might not always be every time but I will make it my job to get to the most important things.

I’m so disappointed. A couple of weeks ago I couldn’t go to an event because of an important meeting and the meeting was just not important. And we walked away from it— I was just devastated. I was like, why did I waste my time with this? When I had my first child one of the ladies I worked with said, “every day you’re going to have to leave at the time when you think is right for you and other people won’t leave at that time. And you need to be okay with it and walk out the door with your head held high.” And I’ve very much stuck to it. But even today I leave for the 5:18 train and nobody else is leaving and I have to be okay with that. So part of it is just changing your anxieties and guilt and your feelings and perception of other people. Not caring. Because your kids are most important.

My sister once said to me when I was thinking about quitting, “you don’t have to not work; right now you have to work less. So you need to find the right situation where you can work less than what you were previously doing” and that’s hard. It’s like finding the right fit and the right job. And that can’t be both parents. Because somebody has to bring home the bacon. She also always said, “you’re never going to get to everything; you have to pick what’s most important.” so those are two rules I follow and like you said, just forgiving yourself. It’s hard. It’s so hard. It’s hard for everybody. If I were home it would be just as hard. I can step away from motherhood so much every day and be in my previous life and enjoy that, right? Like all the adult interactions and the brain work and everything. And I couldn’t do that if I were at home and that would be really hard on my mental strength.

10. Oh no! Not necessarily. I think they were great and I think it’s a great initiative for so many reasons. I think the whole celebrity culture thing— I don’t understand why people take advice— because they’re not living in the real world and you’re only seeing one side of how they do things. They could be a horrible mother. The picture doesn’t show them with all the other things that are going on in their lives it’s just a picture.

I guess other things that come up, I don’t know, I think we touched on a lot of good things. One thing I notice is that there are so many misconceptions that come up about motherhood. Some people think it’s so easy, you know, I have gotten a lot of that at work. You know, you can just do this assignment and it’s no problem and they don’t appreciate that I’ve done this assignment while there’s a kid screaming in the background and there’s this going on and craziness happening around me. There are people who don’t appreciate motherhood and it does always take me by surprise but it does exist and I think that that’s something that I have to learn to respond to or sometimes maybe just not engage with. I have seen things happen with moms being sort of shamed and that always makes me so uncomfortable. But there still is that undercurrent with women where there is a lot of mom-shaming that goes on. The kid is screaming in the restaurant and another person complains and says things like your kid is only cute to you. I’ve heard things like that. I think that’s so messed up. I just think there has to be more tolerance in general in the world. I think maybe it starts with— maybe that’s something mom culture can drive. Let’s be tolerant. Let’s understand there’s a lot of work that goes into being a mom and just appreciate and value them. Show some respect while you’re at it.

I’m so happy to be in the world of moms. I always wanted to go over to that side. And it’s like I do feel like now an automatic kinship with someone on the street who’s a mom with a child who is having a tantrum in the middle of the street and I’m like: oh I feel your pain. And I do feel that sympathy for the child that’s crying. I hate the sound of a child crying. It’s the worst sound in the world. I still go like a radar to that child anywhere in a five minute radius of me I will find them and I will zero in on them. And it’s so rewarding to be in that world and I get so much joy from it and I hope to have one more. We’ll see.

11. Not really. But I think the society puts a lot of pressure on being— there’s this whole term of good mothering. That should not be in a part of anybody’s dictionary. I think every mother does the best. Every mother is a good mother. There are sometimes there are circumstances which, you know, things happen, but I think every mother is a good mother.

12. Mom: I thought you did a great job of covering all the aspects of motherhood. I couldn’t think of anything else. First of all your openness, and you’re very warm and it’s easy to talk to you.

Daughter: I think your questions were open-ended enough that people could really tailor them to their own experiences. I think that’s important because there is no singular maternal experience. I think there’s things in common: how do you structure your time, always feeling interrupted, tired, whatever. But I spend too much time looking at mothers’ responses on the internet and sometimes I feel like they must be raising a different species and sometimes I feel completely recognized. So I think you did a good job of being able to include mothers with a lot of kids, one kid—

Another thing. I think it’s important. I was very stressed out when he was born about bonding. I was very worried that he would not bond with me and I think maybe one thing I would tell that lady in the elevator is like: don’t get in your head so much about what the research says it takes for a baby to bond with you. You’re the only mom he’s got and there’s a million ways to be a mother. So stop fretting about this chemical reaction that you have no control over anyway. I was so worried I was like, he won’t bond! And there wasn’t a competition to choose like who got to be his mom it was always going to be me. And I’ve only now started to get out of that mind set like I need to do something. Just being with him all the time is the bond.

13. I don’t know what question would have led to this— maybe it would have been about lessons learned— but one thing I’ve noticed about myself in my “parenting style” is that we all have baggage from our own parents, right? And so in an effort to not be your mom or your dad or whatever thing you don’t want to be like I feel like sometimes we have blind spots and we end up becoming the opposite thing which has it’s own risks but we don’t realize that. So for example my mom was really critical. She was constantly interfering with stuff even if it was like the simplest thing; I’m boiling water and she’s gonna come over and adjust the heat. So I feel like I’ve swung to the other extreme where I’m like, I’m not going to intervene at all because I don’t want you to feel micromanaged but then I’m like, well, I probably want to give you some boundaries so that you’re safe and so that you feel like you have proper advice and guidance in the world. So I feel like it’s been interesting for me to try to navigate that just because you’re not doing whatever it was your parents did that you didn’t particularly love, doesn’t mean— you gotta be careful to not do something equally as bad by trying to avoid it.

14. Did you ask what the hardest thing was? I feel like your questions got at that without being so direct. I think it’s a good set of questions because it’s open-ended enough that people can take it where they want.

I was super busy in work over the period of a couple of months in November through January. Too busy. And my younger son’s first birthday was in November. And I didn’t come down from work until it was like 7. Dinner was ready and it was time to eat and I had hardly seen him on his first birthday. I realize that birthdays are— it’s this arbitrary thing— if I see him the day before and the day after it’s not, you know, but I came down and I started crying. I was like I haven’t even seen my baby and it’s his first birthday and he’s the best baby ever and this is not what I signed up for. It wasn’t guilty as much as mad. I deserve to be with him on his first birthday but I had so much work and it’s client work that just needs to get done. So I had a little cry and I got over it. I was like, first of all, realizing that whether it’s yesterday or tomorrow really it’s not that big of a deal. Second of all, I have control over this I can scale down. And third of all, he feels loved and I’m a good mom and it’s okay; this is just one day and it’s okay to feel frustrated. So I talked myself off the ledge. It was a combination of feeling guilt and anger and frustration.

15. I think one of the things— I don’t know if there’s something you should have asked. I worked up until I gave birth and then I’ve been on a child care leave a little longer than expected. It’s a little lonely I think. Motherhood can be lonely. And it’s hard, when you get older, to make friends. You know what I mean? Bitch, I don’t have time to fucking make friends with you like we can’t brunch, do you know what I mean? But I think you have to just— I don’t know— it’s like a sink or swim type of job. You don’t know how you do it, you just do it. You know the movie Groundhog Day? It’s like the never ending day. From birth until— I don’t know— when will I relax? When they’re 40 or 80?

I’m going back to work in September and I have an au pair coming. I’m like one of those now. And I say that and I vomit in my mouth. If someone would have told me that like 10 years ago I’d be like, “I’m not going to have a fucking au pair.” But because of our hours I need it. And I’m worried. I think my kids are going to be fine; I think it’s me. My friend was here this weekend she was like, “it’s you. You’re kids will be fine. You’re going to be the mess. She’s like, watch, your kids will be fine.”

Everyone’s like: become a teacher! Your hours are great! Well what the heck do you do when you have to be at work and your kids have to be at school an hour and a half later? Because my start time is 7:43 at my new school. My kids don’t go to preschool until 9. I have to leave my house at 6 AM. My husband leaves the house at 6 AM.

One of the biggest things that I was worried about going back to work— you know when they have the little Thanksgiving stuff? I told my husband and I’m like I’m going to have to call your aunt to go or my mom might have to go or you might have to go into work late one day. I don’t want my kids to be the only kids without somebody there to love on them. My mom worked but she went back to work when I went to Kindergarten. She worked at a doctor’s office.

It’s hard. Women are expected to have a work life, have a home life, have a social life. And your kids and then this and then that. And it’s like when can we just sit and pick our toenails, you know? Seriously. I had no help when my kids were little; I didn’t have a nanny because I stayed at home— whatever. My husband would come home and I was like I’m gonna go and sit in the bathroom. He’s like, “oh, what are you gonna do? I just got home from work.” “I’m gonna fucking pick my toenails, that’s what I’m gonna do. You have no right to ask me what the fuck I’m going to do. You got to go and have adult conversations all day. I got to argue with a two and half year old.” So my husband comes home and he was like, “how was your day?” And I was like, “fuck you I want to sit and pick my fucking toenails for ten minutes. In peace!” And he’s like, “okay, okay go ahead.” And of course I know what’s going to happen— he’s not going to watch them. They’re banging on the door and I’m like, “can you just fucking take them on a walk around the building? I just want quiet.” And he’s like, “you okay? You look a little tense.” And I’m like, “fuck you.” He’s like, “well I worked all day” and I’m like, “I haven’t showered in like 4 days. Fuck off.” Do you know what I mean? I feel like sometimes it’s a competition of, like, who has a right to be more tired. I’m like, I haven’t washed my hair in 4 days and he’s like, well I don’t have any hair. I’m like, well that’s not my fault. Let me bathe? Can I bathe? Do you want a hug? Please let me bathe.

16. I don’t know if you were going to ask me more about parenting styles or how do you get through a day? What do you do to get through a day? How do you get through a day? Is it working out? Is it taking 20 minutes for yourself? What are the best tools you can use? Even if it’s not escaping, it’s just what do you need day to day to be who you want to be? Maybe it’s someone likes to go running for 20 minutes but maybe it’s reading to their kids for 15 minutes; maybe it’s quiet time with your kids. And maybe most of the time it will be without their children. Probably I just more look at it like it doesn’t feel like escaping to me like this helps me get through my day. I don’t know that I’m escaping necessarily my kids are right there. I can hear them. I have to give them breakfast and I have to be mindful of them so I wouldn’t call this an escape but this interaction helps me get through my day because it’s like I’m not just with them all day long.

17. You asked a lot of really good questions. I think when I think of motherhood and kind of the social constructs around it especially for suburban moms like, what’s interesting to me is kind of what grouping people pair themselves into. There’s the cliché of the granola, hippie attachment parent and then there’s a lot of parents, their identity of being a working mom. There’s a million things. I guess you could ask people, like, do you classify yourself as a particular kind of mom or if you had to what group or school would you be in?

I think I had kind of a gravitational pull towards attachment parenting but it felt like it didn’t work for who my kid was. Because, like, people would be like “just bring the baby into the bed with you” and I would complain that she wouldn’t sleep. And she never wanted to sleep next to us. Or people would be like “why don’t you just wear her?” I’m like because she’s not happy being worn either. I mean I did sometimes but it didn’t seem like there was any solution that was a catch-all for all my mom troubles and I also just feel like I don’t want to be part of some mom cliché.

If you find yourself in a group of moms that you’re not familiar with there’s certain topics of conversation that always inevitably come up and then people kind of, I dont know, it’s a weird push and pull because in one circumstance all the moms feel united in this common experience and they’re trying to relate to one another but then there’s a lot of defensiveness too. Like I was joking with my friend— I went to a birthday party of one of my husband’s friend’s kids who we haven’t seen in years and she has a very tight-knit group of moms from her daycare. And they were very supportive of one another but, as an outsider, it was very hard to break into it because they were like oh, you don’t work? And like I’ve known some mom groups where moms kind of almost adopt a bad moms attitude like almost like: I’m not going to be perfect; I’m going to literally joke about being the opposite of a good parent, which I find hard to relate to because to me so much of my day is thinking about motherhood, like it’s my job, you know? But then I don’t know. I wonder if that’s just me being judgmental. I have no idea.

It’s so interesting because dads don’t have that. They can just talk to other dads and have this commonality and make easy conversation where there’s no one’s feelings are being hurt and it’s not contentious at all. I feel like I have different groups of friends that are all really different and I can get along with them; like I don’t feel like I fit into any package in that way. Yeah, it’s interesting. I think some of it is rooted in people’s insecurities about motherhood, which everyone has, regardless of what kind of mom you are. But I happen to be friends with a lot of people who have multiple kids, like 3 or more kids, because my town is full of huge families and so people have a lot of questions: why did you decide to have one child? What is that like? There’s kind of a line of questions like: that must be so great, you have so much time to yourself. All moms are kind of always sizing each other up. I guess all women are. People think it’s so formative. Whereas you never assume that all people who have 2 kids have the same experience.

It’s nice talking about all this stuff because people don’t really discuss it honestly like this. I have a few good friends that I do talk about the emotional components of motherhood but yeah, everyone’s always kind of, they want to bond as moms but they don’t want to step on people’s toes because they don’t want to be offensive.

It’s interesting. I’ve met moms who are kind of emotionally distanced from their kids and I feel like that really more a manifestation of like trying to tolerate the circumstances they’re in which are horrific. Like people who have shared custody where they don’t see their kids every day. Or people that work so many hours that they’re not interacting with their kids on a daily basis. And I think any woman, and maybe this sounds sexist, but I think maybe it’s a traumatic experience and when that’s happening people have to blunt themselves to the emotions and they have to put a wall up. Because I’ve met moms like that. And I’m sure they are also talking about my psychology and why I act the way I act. It’s a really intense experience. It’s also like the most common experience so it’s hard to reconcile that.

I think in some ways postmodern-feminism has left out stay-at-home moms in a way that is not good for all moms. You know, being a mom is a form of work. Whether you’re kind of outsourcing that and you have a beloved nanny who is part of your family and is helping you mother or whether you’re doing it, it’s a devalued labor force, for sure.

18. Maybe if you could change anything about your parenting what would it be? Or what is something that you learned that you didn’t already know? For me, so something that I learned— something that shocked me— is when I went from one to two. I did not realize how much siblings impact one another. I thought it was just us and our parenting. I learned very quickly how my son is being shaped by his interactions with his older sister and that he’s not having the same experience that she had. And I thought that they would. They’re raised in the same house, they’ve been given the same things. I see how he gets quiet because she hogs up so much attention so he’s willing to take a backseat to his sister. It’s not just us that molds and I think that was surprising.

If I could change anything about my parenting: I think maybe not be so intense. I think I was following in my father’s footsteps and I’m very intense. But. I’m not so sure that I would change it; I think that I would just pay more attention to it. I would watch it more closely. The whole thing is that my husband is not very strict at all. He acts like he is but he’s not when it comes to discipline and actually doing things. As far as working and doing school work that’s all on me and pushing them. So I think also it depends on your partner. You can’t have two rocks— that’s not fair to them. I think I would work a little better to feed off of my partner to give them— and it’s all growing as a parent.

Regardless of the fact if I’m working or not I know the names of their best friends and dentists. So it’s not just an excuse about work. Mothers will know that no matter what is going on in their lives. Mothers are invested in their children on a different level. I think all fathers need to see that and ask them those questions. Ask them how their day was and who did they hang out with today. Just be more invested in their personality and what’s going on. It’s like they get to be oblivious and we kind of co-sign and we allow them to do that and we shouldn’t. I’m not trying to put them down at all. They’re needed. It’s just different.

19. How being a working mother has impacted my feelings on motherhood. As a working mom, I am very aware of the sacrifices that I have to make as a mom, but also of the benefits that I believe me and my children get from me working. People say that you can’t have it all, but I am trying to prove them wrong!

20. One question that someone asked me the other day was do you still hang out with your friends who don’t have kids? Which I thought was interesting. Or like how’s the relationship going? But there was a little bit of like— my friends’ reactions at the beginning. It was kind of weird. It was like happy but it was also like—bye— and now I think now that they think Oh! You’re still you.

21. I had no idea what questions you were going to ask.

22. Si me hubiero gustado tener otro hijo.

23. I don’t know. I feel like I think we talked about a lot because a lot of the questions you asked encompassed a lot of things. I’m sure a lot of people are the same way. These specific themes that run throughout based on their personality and lifestyle and what’s important to them. And so all these different questions will come up with the same themes because that’s just who they are and that’s just what they think about. I guess you could say what are you failing at? But you asked what does not come naturally to you which is probably a kinder way—

24. I don’t know I feel like— maybe what do you like the most or least about motherhood? But you kind of asked that. I was happy that you asked questions that tapped into my emotional well being than just basically about the baby. I feel like you had good questions.

26. I guess my favorite part is sort of like the most rewarding. But what’s my least favorite part? I guess it’s the same thing— I miss sleeping on my own schedule. The weekend loses all meaning when you have a baby who’s gonna wake up at the same time no matter what day of the week it is. You know?

27. I don’t know. I guess I didn’t really have— about motherhood— I wish I had something really important and clever to add. But I don’t. I guess just that when you get to my stage you miss having your children, your children in law, your grandchildren around and that’s a very hard part of arriving at this stage. And maybe I tend to look back with such, thank goodness, fondness of those times and they bring me a lot of joy even now. That’s the positive. The negative is missing it. The positive is having the memories which light up the day. One of the things I’m doing now is I’m going through boxes of old photographs and I’m sorting them to give to my children and they give me such pleasure because I relive those times.

Is it me or are these women just ridiculously smart and impressive and clever? Conducting these interviews was an incredible experience for me. Aside from having children and fulfilling that dream of being a mother, interviewing women about motherhood pretty much sums up every other dream I have: drinking coffee, hearing about people’s lives, commiserating about motherhood, helping people think about things they wouldn’t have otherweise thought about, bringing the stories of ordinary women into the universe. If I could do this all day, every day that would be my ideal life.

On that note, I’ve got my next set of questions burning a hole in my pocket. Anyone interested in this next round? Now that we know the entire world can be run through Zoom, it’ll be a lot easier to interview people on the other side of the globe. And a lot better for my aviophobia. Until next time.

Mom Talk – Part 13

Question: You’re in an elevator with your kids and a pregnant woman who says that she’s due with her first child in a week. She asks for your words of wisdom. You’re getting off at the next floor. What do you say?

I’m not great at thinking on my feet. If someone asked me this question I’d probably just exclaim something totally useless like “Oh wow! Congratulations! So exciting! It’s not easy, but you’ll be fine!” Then I’ll kick myself because I’ll have wanted to say:

Prepare for the unexpected. You literally never know what to expect with kids. There is no such thing as a plan because kids and life don’t follow plans. You can have a contingency plan when things don’t go the way you expected, which will be most of the time. But your contingency plan also won’t go the way you thought. Motherhood is a bunch of unknowns. It’s known unknowns (will your child be a good sleeper? Will you be a yeller?) It’s unknown unknowns (you never thought to consider whether you’d watch actual human poop come out of a runaway toddler). It’s unknown knowns (you don’t realize yet that you’ll recognize the difference between a tired cry and a wet diaper cry). The one thing it’s not is known knowns (you can be 100% confident of nothing.) You cannot know what this tiny being will be like, feel like, sound like, grow up to be like, grow up to look like, or anything else at all. All you can do is realize that and prepare yourself to face the smallest and the biggest obstacles.

Take care of your body. You’re not eating for two. Yes, you are growing a child. Yes, you may nurse a child. But that doesn’t give you free rein to eat anything and everything you want and crave. Exercise and eat well. If you’re not in the habit already, get into the habit now. It will not get easier as time goes on to develop healthy habits. Maybe after the first kid you’ll bounce right back to your pre-baby weight and shape but maybe not. And maybe the second or third time suddenly the weight won’t drop off and you’ll be pinching rolls in places you’d rather not. I wish someone had told me to take care of myself better or I wish that I had believed the people who tried to tell me. Trying to develop good habits now seems like an uphill battle— undoing the effects of every bagel and ice cream I just had to have. It would have been a lot easier to prevent seven years ago rather than repair after the fact.

I didn’t ask this question to the first few moms. One mom mentioned that she thought I’d ask for advice and I thought, yeah. That’s a good idea. It’s funny because moms tend to hate unsolicited advice (doesn’t everyone?) But if someone actually asked for it? Moms overwhelmingly find as many different ways to say: it will pass; it’s a phase; it’s hard for awhile, but things will get better; you will get through this. Moms also say: don’t be consumed by guilt; try to enjoy it; love your kids and embrace them for who they are; love your baby; it’s not how it seems on television and Instagram; there’s no one right way to do things; sleep; take care of yourself; trust your instincts; ignore unsolicited advice; know that you can never be fully prepared; realize that you’re not failing and that it’s hard for everyone.

The answers:

5. I would say just really enjoy it, don’t be too hard on yourself, just know that everything for better or worse is a phase and that no matter what happens— whether you nurse or do formula or the baby is colicky or not that all the baby really needs from you is to feel loved so just to show that to the baby and everything else will just fall into place.

6. At any step of this process it will pass. The feeling will pass. When I went to this mom group it started because we were all nursing our kids. It was a nursing mom thing. Some people had trouble and we would talk about some of the trouble we were having and the key words were: this too shall pass. This too shall pass. And I think that new moms always need to realize that. This is going to suck. It’s going to be amazing. All of it’s going to just keep going.

7. It’s a rough start but things will get better. That’s what I’d say. I’d say one other thing. I’d say in delivery just remember: do what’s best for the baby. And I say that all the time whenever I see a pregnant person because— and I don’t know if it’s as much of an issue here— but in the U.K. there was a big emphasis on natural birth. And everywhere you go people are, like, trying to drill into your head whatever you do you should have a natural birth and you should avoid any sort of drugs. And one of the things that I struggled with a lot after having my first is that it didn’t end up being a natural birth; it was an emergency C-section. And at the time one of the things that I regret about that, even in the moment when the doctors were like, “your child cannot breathe we have to take you into the theater” I was like, “no, it’s because you’re not letting me sit on the yoga ball and letting me move around the room; they told me in my antenatal classes I have to be able to walk and you gotta let me sit on the yoga ball.” And I look back at the time and think, how could I be so stupid? But it was because they drilled this idea into your head and you lost all perspective. I’m like, actually I just want to do what’s best for the baby. It’s probably not as big of an issue here. But in the U.K. any time I came across anyone that was pregnant my only advice was, just listen to what the doctors say. Because the other thing that they go on a lot about there is breastfeeding and, again, you have a lot of women who just can’t and the amount of guilt they’re ridden with— it’s very hard to recover from at a time when you’re already not particularly strong and you’re constantly beating yourself up about that fact that somebody told you you shouldn’t take an epidural, you shouldn’t have had a C-section and you should be breastfeeding as long as you can. Of course that’s the idea but if medically you can’t for some reason— it’s okay!

8. You will have your moment but try to enjoy the growth with your kid. The first two years might be really hard because you might feel like you’re a cow, literally, a pump machine but everything will become later on the achievement in life and you will enjoy more. So just hang in there and you will see the light at the end of the tunnel. That might be the thing I wish someone told me. I’d rather know. You and your husband won’t have a life but just hang in there. It will be better.

9. I’d tell her it’s going to be a little tough at first but then, they always change. So whatever hardship you’re struggling with, whether it’s reflux or lack of sleep— because that’s how you should go into pregnancy, is with the right expectation. It’s going to be a little tough but it always changes and always get better. I always say that to new moms.

10. I would tell her to not get consumed by guilt. I would tell her that there’s a lot of opportunities for mothers to feel guilty or bad about things and not to spend too much time in that world— to try to pull herself out of it. To just be present with her child. And just make the most of every moment with the child. Just to be present is so important. And just to enjoy the time with your child. Not to let that guilty voice go off in her head all the time. Just to live life. Be herself. Let her define being a mother for herself; don’t let other people tell her what her expectations should be or could be. Don’t let them put their expectations on you. Just be yourself. This is a small example but women have so much of that coming at them I feel. I feel as I get older they talk about things like, I think Gloria Steinam used to say, “you don’t understand what it’s like to be a woman in the working world until you’re actually in it and you’re being discriminated against and then you see it.” And she’s right. I found out I wasn’t paid the same as a lot of men in my field and it’s horrible.

I think that women have a lot of expectations put on them that aren’t really accurate or realistic from other people. I had a woman come up to me one time and say, “you’re small so you’re going to have a cesarean. You’re probably going to have one.” And I was like, “why would you say that?” and she was like, “well because you’re little and you know—” and to me the thought of a cesarean was not a great thought because I understood that it meant a lot of discomfort. And I know that’s okay, women have it, of course. But she immediately pegged me as someone who was going to need to have it. And my mother never had one and my mother was also petite. It has nothing to do with your outside body it has to do with your body internally.

So you get these people, they’re not even badly intentioned people. It’s not like the world is always mean. There can be plenty of people meaning to be kind or helpful but they’re not being helpful. So I think you have people coming to you with lots of thoughts and ideas about you and expectations about you that might not necessarily be accurate and I would just tell her to listen to her own voice and let her develop her own way of doing things and be a mother in her own right. And to kind of shake off the other stuff and just let it fall off of her and their expectations and their guilt and those things and just be herself. Just be herself. That’s all you can be. I think it’s hard to do. We all get caught up in it, and you do have to pull yourself back.

And also to tell her that it’s okay to take time— time out for herself without feeling badly about it. If she’s getting over stressed or over tired or burned out you do need a little bit of me time. And you just need to try to find ways to take it. Or say to your spouse or your significant other or whoever is on hand to help, you know, I need a few minutes. Just give me some breathing room. Just please cooperate with me and work with me and let me have my time so I can recharge myself.

I would also say not to get caught up in being perfect. There is no perfect. Just do things in a way that feels good and natural to her. I think that’s important.

11. Just to enjoy every moment. Don’t let one second slip away; it’s very precious. I think every day is beautiful but when I look back in those first few days are so good. I still miss, you know, kids touching you everywhere.

12. Mom: Enjoy every moment of it.* I feel with my daughter I wanted to go back to work and I kept wishing she would be older. Wishing— when she’s two or when she’s four or when she’s in preschool— and one of my biggest regrets is that I sort of wished away things waiting for something else to make life easier for us. So I would stop. Try to be more present in my life with my daughter and my husband.

What would you tell that lady?

Daughter: I’d probably give her my email address.

Mom: Say, “I’ll get back to you.”

Daughter: You know, for me it would be like: sing a lot, read a lot, remember that this baby is yours. He’s going to be like you and not like you in all the right and all the most annoying ways. And that eventually they sleep. Eventually they smile. And don’t be afraid to ask for help.

Mom: That’s a good one.

*I asked a follow-up question here: it’s something people say, “enjoy every moment” How do you respond to the idea that it is impossible to enjoy certain moments?

Mom: My perspective is looking back. When it was happening and she had a brain tumor and we were in the hospital for a month it’s hard to enjoy those moments or be present in those moments; you want to run away from those moments. Enjoy the moments that you can. When she’s playing or happy or you’re all well. I have a habit— I met someone once who does the same thing— of stopping at a certain time and saying: oh this is really a good moment. And I started it when she was about 7 and we were in Paris and we were walking. My husband was on one side and I was on the other and we were holding her hand and she was not quite seven in the summer and the weather was beautiful. And I started a habit which I do which is: I’m always going to remember this minute. And I have a whole list of them. Of consciously taking that. And I’m sorry I didn’t start it earlier than when she was almost 7. And those are the moments at night when I can’t sleep that I go back to: that walk in Paris, the Reber award- when she won the Reber award, her plays, my husband’s contacts in new york and having dinner with Norman Podhoretz at Commentary and meeting a Supreme Court Justice through my husband. These very special moments that I have because I consciously thought: I’m always going to remember this.

Daughter: I think that, to your question, you know, what about the moments you can’t enjoy? I think that there are moments that you have to survive but I prefer moments you endure. And those are moments you can look back on as moments of strength and that— you’re as a good mother in those moments that you endure as the ones where they’re so happy and they’re so successful and you feel very proud.

But there are other moments. So my friend gave me an example. She was holding her niece and she just cried for hours and there was not anything she could do. She didn’t know what was wrong. She said, “I just had to let her scream in my face for a few hours; and then at the end of the night my sister came home and said oh look there’s a tooth coming out.” She was teething. There wasn’t much they could have done to make that better. There are moments you just sort of have to endure and you’re not failing as a mother in those moments, you’re succeeding. Because you’re letting them feel their feelings. You’re letting them scream in your face which is, in a way, can be harder for you than it is for them to scream in your face. And that there are moments that you endure but those are valuable. They’re not enjoyable. They’re not moments you’ll replay. But to sort of bank them. You’re their mother because you let them scream in your face for hours and you can stand it. It means you love them even more than those who would just be like: oh it’s so much fun to be with you and then you cry— I can’t do anything for you! I’m handing you off. Although I’ve done that too. But I think there are moments you endure. They’re not worth nothing; they’re worth something.

13. I think I would say it’s been impressive to me how resilient kids are. It’s been impressive to me how much insight they have about themselves and maybe we don’t give them enough credit. I think given the unique circumstance of this situation, I don’t know if I can articulate this well, I feel like if we were a more traditional family you go into it believing that the harder you work at it the more perfect you can get it; but maybe because we were inherently given a “not perfect situation” it gave us the freedom to be okay with letting it be. Because of that it’s turned out awesome. In my mind it’s: recognize the boundaries of what you actually can control; try to have that recognition of what you can actually control. And since it’s such a small part of it, sometimes letting it be is allowing it to be as perfect as it can be.

I think if I thought this was going to be longer term then it would be harder to follow the advice that I’m giving myself right now. Then I would feel more compelled to nitpick over stuff that I know probably doesn’t make a difference but I think I wouldn’t be able to help myself. I almost feel like in some ways knowing that it’s transient allows me to have that perspective. To a fault of my own personality I think I would end up perseverating on stuff in retrospect—

Knowing that it’s temporary in theory should make it easier to not get attached but I feel like I’m already struggling with that. That hasn’t paid off or helped in the way that I hoped it would.

14. I would say that, you know, you’re never really prepared for everything that comes your way. Obviously its a good idea to educate yourself as much as possible and, you know, get different opinions on things. There’s no right way to do anything; there’s lots of opinions about the right way to do a million different things and you have to do what’s right for you and your family. You really, especially in the beginning, you have to go day by day. And to be honest I think there’s still a lot of that that happens with little kids. You make plans and you have to be prepared to change. I think flexibility is a huge thing with motherhood. You really can’t plan too much day to day.

15. Someone just told me their pregnant. She was like, “I don’t know if I’m ready for this.” And I was like, “you are!” and then I was like, “no! You’re not. No one ever is and that’s totally cool. You figure it out. It’s totally fine.” Honestly I wasn’t the type of pregnant person who read all the books, which is funny because I am sort of type A so you’d think I was trying to be fully prepared. I think I was just trying to roll with the punches about it and I feel like that served me, at least my personality, because rather than feeling like I had some expectations that needed to be fulfilled that then became a source of anxiety or something it was just like: here’s a baby.

Acutally some of the words of advice that are so simple but I’ve taken them with me – when my first was getting discharged from the NICU— he was early so he was in the NICU for 3 weeks— he was fine and is fine thankfully. But the doctor, his overseeing doctor in the NICU said as we’re literally getting strolled out of the hospital was like, “feed him and love him that’s all you gotta do. Feed him and love him.” and I was like that’s so good; it’s so simple. you don’t have to worry about them doing things on a timeline. People would be like, “oh, they’re 9 months old but they’re not—” and I’m like he’s not going to be 12 years old and not walking. It’s fine. It’s fine.

So anyway words of advice: feed him and love him, I guess. It was just so pure and simple from the doctor. I don’t have stringent views on parenthood whether you should breastfeed or formula feed or sleep train or not sleep train. For me it’s like you do what works for you. If that’s being super regimented, cool. If it’s not at all, cool. I know that’s like a movement to support all mothers which I agree with but I think it’s also just, to me, it’s like practical reality. Everybody’s doing their best. You’ll figure it out. Take care of him. Don’t be an asshole.

I do like being informed. I like knowing all the things, all of the options, what’s the right thing to do? Because that’s the other thing: I’m not an expert in this; someone else is. I do have views that I adhere to in terms of like, I’ll go to a website and if it’s like “How to Be an Authoritarian Parent” that’s not going to be my jam, right? But there’s one called Hand In Hand Parenting and I sometimes find their articles helpful in terms of things like how to handle outbursts or something. And I ask my pediatrician a lot of questions and sometimes I agree with what he says and sometimes I’m like I’m not gonna do that.

16. Trust your instinct. You’re the mom. Do what you think is right. I’m not going to say, like, “do this or go buy that” I think you gotta learn it. You can do it. I think that’s something people don’t say especially nowadays with social media and Google, right? There’s a plethora of knowledge out there and moms are always being questioned. “Why are you doing that? We never did that with you guys when you were younger—” Well you know what Brenda, who fucking asked you? Nobody asked you. You know, people feel very free and liberated to give their opinions to people when they’re not asked for. If somebody asks me— if I don’t know a person: hey you know what, you’re going to do a great job. You’re going to love that baby. Love your baby. Do what you think is the right thing. Because how the fuck do I know? Every kid is different. There’s no formula for raising kids. There’s no right or wrong way it’s just different. I think building up the moms. Stop making moms question everything, right? I feel like my mom’s generation I feel like they were tougher. They were tougher. They didn’t have, like, oh let me check to make sure she’s getting enough calcium or whatever. I was like, eh, have some chocolate milk you’ll live. I mean we all lived. We didn’t have fucking car seats. How am I still here? I didn’t have a car seat! My parents put me in a seat belt but I’ve been in cars with my friends when I was a kid and they didn’t even fucking put the seat belt on us. Or you go to the park and you’re standing on the swing and you try to purposely flip over? I mean the fact that I’m alive— The shit that we did. I mean I did some sketchy shit as a kid. If my fucking kids ever did it— I would chain them to the door handle and be like now you’re going nowhere. I know they’ll never get away with it. I know what goes on.

17. I would say my words of wisdom would be: it’s really, really hard and don’t feel bad that it’s really hard. Don’t feel like you’re failing because it’s really hard. It’s just really hard in the very beginning. I mean it’s hard the whole time but that to me was the biggest. I wish someone had just said to me: you’re going to feel like a failure and a mess the first few weeks because it’s so hard but everyone feels that way. Nobody told me that. I wish. I would have felt so much better if someone had said to me: the way you feel right now, that you feel so defeated— but no one said that to me. I would have said it’s really hard but it gets so much easier but don’t feel like a failure because I felt like a failure and like a terrible mother because it felt so hard to me. That’s what I would say. I would not give them fluff. I would just be like it’s okay to feel that way. It’s going to get better but it’s going to be really hard and you’re going to be fine. That baby’s going to make you crazy for months. You are literally going to have another human being attached to your body for months and you are just going to be a mess and it’s okay.

18. I tend to always give people advice about sleep because for me that was so formative in my early motherhood that I tell people just, I know it’s cliche people say try to sleep when your kid is sleeping and of course you don’t want to you want to do all the house errands and have time for yourself but sleep is really important for mental health so make sure you get it somehow. Ask for help so that you can sleep.

19. No one will know your children the way you know them and trust your maternal instincts. It’s God-given. I believe in it; don’t talk yourself out of it. Trust those maternal instincts more than anything else.

20. To be present in every moment with her children and to enjoy every minute because it goes by so quickly.

21. Enjoy it. You’re so like, “this is hard, this is hard, this is hard” and then it’s gone. Like the stage where he couldn’t go anywhere and was just sleeping and snuggling was so fast but it felt so intense. So yeah. I would just say enjoy it and be present. And I think people gave me that advice but I don’t think there’s any other advice that you could give someone that’s helpful. Maybe readjust your expectations.

22. I would absolutely say what I’ve said to my sister: there’s more than one way to do things. That’s my advice. There’s no right or wrong. Even a mundane thing like putting a diaper on. Or when your kids get older you just do your best. I’ve said that to many a person. Because otherwise you put yourself under too much pressure: oh I should be doing this I should be doing that or, “my husband, I can’t leave him with the baby because he doesn’t know what to do—” because there’s more than one way to do things.

23. Decirle que encomiende su hijo a Dios.

24. Go with your gut. Because I think that was really helpful for me when I was recognizing you can just listen to yourself not in an arrogant, close-minded sort of way but just trust yourself. My best friend told me that and I think that was valuable. Trust yourself. You know what feels right for you. And I think so many moms don’t because there is so much information and everyone does things so differently and it’s so confusing. Once you take that in as something that you should be doing versus another option it gets really overwhelming. Go with your gut and make time for yourself even though it seems so impossible and downright selfish make time for yourself whatever that is. For me it’s to exercise but some people it’s like shop, nails, whatever works I guess. But I’d say trust yourself and make time for yourself.

25. I would say, basically, don’t worry about what everybody else is telling you: other older women in your life or even your other mom friends, like, advice or what you should or shouldn’t be doing because you’re going to know your baby very quickly. Whether or not you recognize it. And if you’re really scared, call the pediatrician because they don’t care. But yeah that was the most irritating thing for me was hearing from parents and grandparents and even neighbors who have kids who are already teenagers or whatever hearing like, “oh, when my son or my daughter— we tried this—” Just don’t. I don’t want to hear the suggestions. I appreciate it, but if I really need some help I’ll call the doctor. That kind of stuff. That’s me personally. Drove me nuts more than anything else. That and I’d also probably tell her about her nipples because nobody told me. If no one’s told you yet: breastfeeding is really hard. And I would tell her to download the Tiny Beans app which has been a savior for us. It’s basically like baby Facbeook kind of. It works wonderfully.

26. Nothing will ever go exactly as you want it to so don’t expect that. And enjoy the moments because although it sounds trite and some of the days are years you have to enjoy them even—I don’t know— even the chaos and the crazy feelings and try to take a step back every now and again to appreciate it.

27. Try not to worry too much. That’s me, what can I tell you? And realize how lucky you are to have this time of life and remember that it doesn’t last as long as it feels that it’s lasting. That’s the other thing you feel that every minute— every stage is going to last forever when they’re little and it really doesn’t.

Coming up: Mom Talk – part 14 – What didn’t I ask you?

Mom Talk – Part 12

Question: What do you want most?

Once people have kids they tend to be like: I’d throw myself in front of a bus to save my child. I have to be honest. I’m not saying that if push came to shove I wouldn’t throw myself in front of the bus, but thinking about it now? I can’t, in all honesty, say I’d willingly do it. I know that makes me incredibly selfish but I’m just too afraid to die. I want my children to live long happy lives and I want to live a long life to watch them be happy.

Two months ago, when I thought of what I wanted most in the world, well, yes I thought about the health and happiness of my children. Very vaguely. I didn’t know what it would take to make them happy, of course, but I knew that I ultimately that’s what I wanted them to be. I also thought about me. I wanted to be happy. I wanted to be fulfilled. What would have made me happy before? It would have been great if my husband could have been home more. It would be nice to spend real, quality time together as a family. I would have loved to not have to run around like a lunatic shuttling my children around from activity to activity but also not to then feel incredibly guilty for not ensuring they were developing skills to put on their college applications.

In the past two months our lives have fundamentally changed. This global pandemic has disrupted every life on the planet. For me in the past two months: my husband has been home more. I’ve spent real, quality time with my family. I’ve had the most incredible break from shuttling my children around from activity to activity and I don’t feel remotely guilty because no one’s kids are spending this time furthering their resumes. I have the things I wanted— the things I thought would make me happy. And they do. I am happy.

So now with a new perspective and outlook on life what do I want most? I still want health and happiness for my family and for me. I want the coronavirus to pass us by and leave us unscathed. I want my kids to get through this with resilience and strength. I want them to return to their social, public, community lives carefree and untroubled. I want them to love school again. And I want the same for every child. I’m not super excited for a world where my kids succeed more than other kids because I had the flexibility and ability and resources and environment to help them through homeschooling. I think right now more than anything what I want is a world where children are not punished for circumstances beyond their control.

The answers:

2. There’s the cliche happy, healthy child and if everybody else goes with that I want to go with that. And happy, healthy husband. He’ll be offended if I leave him out. And happy, healthy me. Outside of that I would like for us to be comfortable enough and settled enough where we can go we can have adventures; we can spend more time together as a family and see more things— have more experiences. I read something this morning— some Oprah quote— of course it was— it was something along the lines of, “square footage doesn’t fill you up” and I really resonated with that. I have more square footage than I could ever imagine but it doesn’t fill you up; it’s the experiences. So. So more experiences. Together.

3. In what category? I have a lot of things. Legacy. I want to be able to, like, if I drop dead in a week I want to have left something behind that is somewhat meaningful that has helped people, touched people in some way, that my kids can say, you know, look back and say my mom did great work. My mom did something that— there’s a reason why she went to work. She had a purpose and a mission and it wasn’t just random.

4. I really want my kids to find a productive, happy ,healthy groove and to be close enough to me that I’m part of it or that I get to talk to them about it. I don’t have to be in the trenches with them but I want to see them fly and pull people with them. If I never had another car and had to take a bicycle everywhere— if I had that I need nothing else.

5. I want my kids to always feel like we are their biggest supporters and biggest fans and they can always turn to us no matter how old they are. I want them just to feel like we are so trusted and we are always on their side and we have this unconditional love no matter what they do. I want that when I think of the future of our family.

6. I want my children to be kind and resilient and grateful. And hardworking. One of the things— I remember when Steve Jobs’ book came out— when Steve Jobs was a thing there was this quote that used to fly around: “if you love what you do, you’ll never work a day in your life.” And that quote pissed me off because anything, anything that you love takes hard, hard work. I don’t want my kids to ever have the notion that things are just going to come easy to them; they are going to have to work. I felt like when I was young I was naturally smart, I was naturally okay at everything. I didn’t really work hard. I didn’t start to work hard until I was out of college and I feel like I could have— I don’t know— I could have made more impact if I had done that earlier on in life. I want to instill that in the kids now: that if you want something you might be okay at it to start. For example, my older daughter is showing natural talent at gymnastics. Okay, well you wanna do gymnastics? Guess what – you have to practice every single day. You have to work at something or work hard at things. So hard work is very important to me and when he said that I was like, yeah you’re giving the wrong idea to people; this is not the right idea to have.

7. For me or as a mother? I just— it’s probably very selfish— if I had to prioritize anything I would prioritize their happiness over anything else in the world but most importantly and not that it’s within my control but I would wish that they would just be healthy. And it’s absolutely out of my control. But it’s all I could ever hope for for them. Totally out of my control and totally selfish. I could say “world peace” but I know that we’re not fighting for that every day.

8. Right now? What do I want most? I think that keeps changing. I can recall when I was little or up to 30 I always want to be the person other people want me to be because I care so much, I couldn’t accept failure. Keep studying so much to go to the best university in China then came to the US, whatever. Everything is how other people see me. But now— what’s the question again? Now I just what I want most is, well again, before I was hoping to find my passion, hoping to be the person I could be and now I think I’m getting there sort of now. I think everything sort of came together. I think we also heard about Steve Jobs speech; he talk about connecting the dot. So okay I put so much effort in studying to help build my brain. It helps me now because managing kids is not easy. Your brain needs to function, multi-task all the time. So that helps me as a mother. So then it comes to me, what else I was working on, public speaking. To be honest I started Toastmasters three years ago. I was kind of have my judgment about the program because a lot of persons in the program don’t know how to speak why do I need to join this program, learn with a bunch of people don’t know how to speak? But I was in the program 2, 3 years and it helped so much because you just need practice; all you need is practice and you can change. And same for the workout— you just need to keep going. So I think it all came together because you just put some effort in there and all you need to do is just try a little longer and you will find out the joy, the achievement through it. So I think it all came back together, put together that it helped me find my passion. I mean this job is not easy either because I never done marketing. And me and my partner fight so many times. I cried. I literally cried so much. And she doesn’t know. It’s okay. But I think I know it’s important to keep going because I’ll overcome whatever is not working until the moment it start to work. I don’t know if I answer the question.

9. I want my kids to be happy. And my husband, right? I want my family to be happy, to live their best lives. Everybody is going to go through hard times especially at school but I want them to be able to come out from it hopefully and not too scarred; just happy.

10. Another child definitely. I would stand on my head for half an hour; I would do whatever someone made me do if I could have that. I just think it would round things out so nicely. I think it would bring contentment. I think that would be the most satisfying thing to me.

11. For my children to grow up as good human beings. Kind and generous. I would love for them to go to a good college, but if they don’t at least they should be very kind and generous to people.

12. Daughter: I want him to be happy and healthy and I want to build a life that is— that works for everyone in my family. I want to take him on trips and I want to read books with him and I want to keep writing and I want my husband to like his new job and be happy in it. I want to meet other mom friends. I just want to figure out a way to piece it together. Maybe that’s not super articulate but that is what I most want.

Mom: Just health and more years with my husband and for them to have what they want. To be a part of my grandson’s life.

13. From life? I want to live— I can’t think of a better adjective— but a full life. I want to feel like I have leaned into— again, not to have buzz words but I can’t think of a better way to say it— every potential thing I possibly could and that I realize my full potential. I think that for me would be considered success.

14. Honestly? I think a big piece of it is just to have happy, healthy kids that grow to be happy, healthy adults. And have a tight family unit. I think you know that my husband’s parents split so that’s not lost on me that you really have to put the time and effort into your own relationship as well. But I think happy, healthy family unit and like I said, that they grow into well-adjusted children. I think that’s pretty much the most important thing to me.

15. Sleep in? What do I want most. I think probably what everybody wants most which is to live a fulfilling life where I have, for me, personally, accomplished things professionally that I’m proud of while being the kind of mom that I want to be and the kind of wife that I want to be and the best version of myself and the best version of my life? I’d really like a beach house? I mean yeah, fulfillment and happiness. And a beach house. Fulfillment and happiness to me but that encompasses the fulfillment and happiness of my family. And health obviously for the people that I love. Is that too much to ask?

16. Happiness and health. I don’t need money. I don’t need things. My brother is not a well guy. He has a mechanical valve. He, my brother, almost died like 9 times just from random shit that’s happened. So I think when you’re faced with that you look at life differently. My husband has never— he hasn’t faced major adversity. His dad does have dementia now so this is his first dealings with— My mom, she’s 75, she’s still sharp as a whip. I couldn’t imagine seeing a parent— and to see what he was. He was this tough, big, strong guy and, you know, the disease totally took him over. But still, he’s ticking! He’s tough. My father in law is badass like a tough guy. I say to my husband— you don’t know. To live— you have to live your life. If you don’t have your health, you don’t have anything. My dad died and my brother almost died. It was a lot to deal with and you just appreciate the little things.

My brother came here for Thanksgiving and he was in the hospital a few days before he came and I was like oh my God he’s not going to come and he came. He fucking drove from Chicago to come here and I was so happy. Because all I wanted was just to be with— you know because I don’t have a big family— so my brother is the only thing I have besides my mom. So I think health and happiness. Because everything else is trivial bullshit: keeping up with the Joneses and who has the better car and you know the bigger ring or house or whatever. Your grave’s the same size. Right? Like, stay humble type of attitude. You have your health? You’re good. When I got really sick— it grounds you. Ask any person dying of cancer: what do you want? They want their health. They just want to be healthy and happy. That’s all I want. I don’t care about the other shit. I do like a nice purse or something I’m not going to say I don’t like that stuff. But when you get down to the nitty gritty, it’s the simple things. Life is simple. It is simple. People are odious creatures. People complicate stuff.

17. Honestly the thing I want most is happy, well-adjusted kids that grow into adulthood. What I want most is my kids to outlive me. That’s a terrible thing to say but it’s something that’s always in the back of my head that I think about I just want my kids to outlive me in the best way possible.

18. You know, I always want all the people that are around me that are in my inner circle and that I love to be happy and content. I’ve always been a person that just has a lot of empathy for others and sometimes it’s bad for me because I worry about them more than myself; but you know I want everybody in my family to be healthy and happy. It would be really nice if the world could be that way too but I don’t really think I have a lot of pull to make that happen. I guess I want to feel self-actualized and now that my daughter is approaching full-day school that’s kind of spinning around in my head a lot; because I don’t know whether for me that means kind of re-exploring my professional career or, you know, pursuing artistic things that I kind of always told myself that they were unrealistic as a job and now I don’t really need a job so maybe I should do those things because they make me feel good. I don’t know. I’m not sure. I’d probably be healthier if I could tell you.

19. For myself or—? At the end of the day I just want to be comfortable and healthy. Comfortable to me is not stressing. I feel like my husband and I spend a lot of time stressing about how we’re going to do this, how we’re going to do that. I want us to be comfortable where that stress and strain is not there. But, you know, again I think that I’m grateful. My mother always told me when her mother moved out she rented a room. And her mother told her to be better than her so she moved out and moved into an apartment with my dad. And then I moved out into my own apartment and now I have a house. So she wants me to pass that on to my children, you know, since we have a house that they have to have a bigger house and better. Maybe not feel the stress that my husband and I feel to give them what we give them. So yeah, I think I’m happy overall. I’m in a good place. But I’m still striving to be better. I don’t feel like I need to keep up with the Joneses or anything like but just a little more consistency would be helpful. We’re grateful: good health, we’re homeowners, we have two beautiful children, they’re doing well, they’re in great schools. You have to take your blessings as they come and I’m definitely appreciative of that. So I’ve been happier. Happy would just be the removal of the stress elements to have all those things.

20. Honestly, all I want is for my family to be happy and healthy. That is all I have ever wanted, and has been my one “wish” on every birthday since I was a little girl.

21. Just like happiness for my family and I want him to have what he needs and be happy and have love. I want to enjoy that with my family and my husband.

22. For my kids to be happy.

23. Verlos formar una familia y nos hagan Abuelos.

24. My initial answer was just, like, I just want to be happy whatever that means. But it’s almost like I just want to be comfortable. But I really just want our kids to be comfortable and confident and safe and happy. Those are a lot of things. It should be confident first because if they can be confident in themselves and learn to make good choices and be confident in their choices and trust themselves and I can see that then I know I will be more comfortable especially as they’re getting older. It’s not that I don’t want things for myself but I think I will be a happier self if I know that I will send them out into the world and I don’t have to worry every day that one bad thing is going to ruin their whole lives. And I think a lot of that comes from confidence and ability to make the right choices for themselves. My husband and I talk about that all the time. Because I have everything tangible and intangible so there’s nothing to want. So it’s almost like I want things to stay as they are or on the same path. That’s not to say there aren’t going to be bumps but just general safety, low drama. I think that’s what I want. A healthy life for me and my family.

25. Well, because of having the two kids, not that I didn’t want this before, but I would really like to know that like financial stability just in terms of their education or anything they would need in the future that that just wouldn’t be an issue. That money would just never be an issue. Because I would, you know, just seeing older kids in the neighborhood where they’re going to colleges and things like that it’s just like, I want every opportunity for them basically that money can buy. It probably sounds really awful and disgusting but that is honestly. And also because I was just so scared of all the things that could happen to them I would just want to know— this sounds ridiculous— that I could quit my job, for example, so that I could stay at home just to be like watching them all the time. With stupid stuff. Waiting at the bus stop. Walking with them to school. Obviously you can’t watch your kids 24/7. Emotionally that’s not good for you or anything but I would just want to know that like, yeah, I just— I just would want to know that they were safe at all times.

My mom said no to us for everything, all the time, it was always no. and we always had to get our own jobs whether it was like my sister and I were babysitting all through high school and then I worked through college. My brother was working at the Great Swamp Greenhouse through high school. She never gave us anything. But when push came to shove if we found a camp or something that we wanted to go to like a sports camp or when any of us got into college it was never a question, like, yeah you’re going to this school, don’t worry. It would just kill me if either of my girls were crazy smart and they got into some amazing college that I would have to say no, we can’t do that for you. Or like a program, like if it was a theater program, if it was anything and just having to be like no, you can’t follow that dream right now because Mommy and Daddy can’t afford it and there’s no scholarship. I would hate to have to say no to them. Because I feel like we do have a happy house. And I’m not worried about the laughter and the love that they’re going to feel from my husband and I. I’m more concerned about when it comes down to just like logistical stuff. Then again I also told my daughter that a fan would chop her fingers off the other day so I don’t know, maybe I terrify her. She’s gotta be afraid of me a little bit. Or at least the fan.

​26. What do I want? I want to be healthy and happy and have my family be healthy and happy and grow old and see them thrive and I want to be a grandma and a great-grandma. And be healthy enough to enjoy it.

​27. Oh gosh. That we should all stay healthy and well and live through this most challenging time. Deal with it in a positive way. I have to say I’m just – because of the timing of this— it just overwhelms everything. It puts into highlight how—what’s the word—how precarious everything is in a way that until now I’ve taken so many things for granted.

Coming up: Mom Talk – Part 13 – The Elevator Question

Mom Talk – Part 11

photo credit: Stacey Ilyse Photography

Question: What is the most impressive thing you have ever done?

This was one of my favorite questions because inevitably it led 27 regular women to do some self-reflection about their lives in a way that they normally wouldn’t. And to toot their own horn in a way that normally isn’t encouraged. Usually regular people don’t have the opportunity to answer questions like this. Usually it’s celebrities who are asked to reflect on their lives and toot their own horns: athletes, movie stars, musicians and other people who are admired. Ordinary moms should be admired. Toot, moms, toot.

It’s great that there are articles like the one from Oprah Magazine: 31 Celebrity Moms who Inspire Us Every Day. But we’re not all celebrities — mostly we’re not. I get annoyed with those articles because, while I suppose it comforts me that Reese Witherspoon and Chrissy Teigen have sleepless nights and never stop worrying, I resent a little bit the fact that the only moms who get the spotlight are people already in the spotlight. Mom Talk – Part 11: 27 Ordinary Every Day Moms Who Inspire Me and Will Inspire You Today and Every Day.

This is one of those questions that reveals my interviewer bias. Or if it doesn’t reveal it let me reveal it to you now: to me, far and away the most impressive thing I’ve ever done is give birth to 4 children and keep them not only alive but thriving. Sammy was 10 pounds at birth – just saying. When I asked this question in my interviews some moms questioned: personally or professionally? Some wondered— is this related to motherhood? Some flat out couldn’t think of anything. I just assumed every mother thought being a mother was the most impressive thing. Not necessarily. Some yes. What about the others?

Moms are impressed with: their professional accomplishments, growing and birthing children, overcoming personality flaws, cooking a meal that makes the kids happy, community involvement, volunteer work, achieving a balance between personal and professional lives— the feeling of doing it all, surpassing expectations and achieving more than would have been expected, athletic accomplishments, mothering, explaining things so their kids understand, making a sacrifice for benefit of the family, committing to a partner, raising good humans, surviving and thriving through hardship and heartache, becoming less selfish, graduating college, making a difference in people’s lives, managing the day-to-day, and postpartum sex.

The answers:

1. In life? The most impressive? I don’t know. How does one answer that? How would you answer that? That I don’t know.

2. On a personal scale or professional? So through work I was doing some really sexy projects and it was a lot of fun, got international coverage. It was really— it was tiring but amazing to do and amazing to see that I figured out those loopholes to do this and it was fulfilling in a way. But all of that— last year my daughter had some health problems and we didn’t know what it was for 9 months. And her lips were turning blue, she wasn’t breathing, she was vomiting. Part of that was happening in the middle of the night and I sort of had a revelation that none of my accomplishments were worth it; none of my professional accomplishments were worth it, and I didn’t care. And so I gave that up. Because I was juggling two businesses at once and they were both successful; I had the production consulting and I had the law practice and it wasn’t— production wasn’t worth it. Law isn’t worth it either but Mama has to pay the bills. So I just cut it out and I honestly haven’t really looked back. I looked back once or twice and I sort of miss it but I don’t at all and just had to move forward. So professional accomplishments, while they’re great, they don’t mean that much to me anymore after all that. And thankfully we figured out sort of what it was and we have a plan now and the symptoms have gone away and she’s been cleared by Children’s Hospital. It was a terrifying 9 months. It was terrible. And no one really understood. I didn’t really let people in. I isolated myself. It was a really bad time all around.

3. Other than grow two children in my body? That’s impressive to me. I know trillions and trillions of women have done this over the years but I still think it’s frickin’ crazy. So that’s one thing— two things because I have two kids— I’m so like I can’t believe this child came out of my body and that I grew it in my body. I know that’s how it’s supposed to be but it just still shocks me. What’s the most impressive thing I’ve ever done? Honestly I don’t think there’s any singular impressive thing that I’ve ever done. There’s nothing that I’ve done that impresses me. I’ll let you know in a few years.

Overcoming my own personality flaws has impressed me. That’s more to do with business than anything else but, you know, speaking in public, for example, is something that is just not my personality; it is not something I used to do. I used to get petrified even to get up and make a toast at a dinner table and now I can do it with ease. That was something that I kind of overcame and I’m definitely impressed with myself. But I’m equally impressed with myself I put dinner on the table and one of my kids says, “this was delicious, it’s the best thing I’ve ever eaten” and I’m like, oh my God I can’t believe I cooked a meal that my kids say is really good. When they’re like, “this is delicious, I love this!” That makes me feel so good. I’m like oh my God they liked something I cooked— that’s amazing!

4. Is this related to motherhood? That is a super hard question for me to answer because I’m not used to talking in those terms. It’s so interesting. So, impressive to other people I feel like motherhood gets taken for granted, right? Like that’s sort of a drumbeat background thing. I think to the external world my work for the synagogue and helping kids go to school for less money and getting involved in the community and reducing barriers for them maybe. I get the most feedback for that.

My kids are my most fundamental achievements— that’s for sure. Impressive I think is external. To me the word impressive— I mean the implication— is how the rest of the world sees it.

I feel like motherhood is undervalued and I feel like volunteer work is undervalued and I feel like volunteer work is fundamental to shaping society. Life and children and family are a combination of momentum, evolution and design and it’s where we apply our energy that we can shape and lend momentum to the things that are important to us.

For sure my kids are the most important. Stemming from that, my synagogue volunteer work. Being president and turning around an organization— a community that is important to me— from financial catastrophe to regular non-profit status where it’s never easy but we are doing pretty well towards achieving a pretty important mission— I feel really proud of that. Partly in the context of my kids but partly in the context of everybody’s kids. I want a really strong community in a world where on a scary front antisemitism is growing and on a positive front what makes our life enriching and has meaning and community— whether or not you believe in God whatever your theological perspective— community is a part of that. Community is important. When my kids were little in the preschool I loved that school. It was the greatest. When my kids were in middle school I thought: wow the preschool was great! What they really need right now is those preschool friends that we’ve invested in to walk into this building and feel safe and secure no matter what they’re wearing because middle school’s rough man— emotionally rough— so a community that carries and nurtures, you know, the people where, you know, we picked our family and our friends as a supplement. So I feel really proud of helping that thrive.

5. I mean, I wouldn’t really call myself impressive. But I would say something that, I think rolling into the happiness question, what gives me happiness and what makes me feel fulfilled and whether it’s impressive to other people or not is sort of impressive to me because it’s what’s important to me is sort of that balance that I was alluding to. So when it’s days when I really feel like I have been doing a great job at work and I’m really around for the kids or it’s everyone just getting along and I’m also still able to catch up with friends and see them for dinner and be really on top of my personal emails and make dinner for a friend who just had a baby and just, like, do all of these different things that are all really important aspects of my life, I think that’s where I feel I’m most impressive to myself because I’m sort of, like, doing it all. So yeah, that’s what I would say.

6. Shit. Impressive. I don’t think anything I’ve done is impressive. I think if I tell my story to people about how I grew up and where I ended up I think that’s impressive to other people. I don’t think I did anything extraordinary to get here. My parents immigrated to this country when I was 5 and my sister was 9. Lived in jersey city with my grandparents in a three bedroom apartment for my grandparents, my parents and me and my sister. Went to public schools. I did go to Catholic high school— my parents did work very hard to send my sister and I to private school— but grew up in the middle of Jersey City. Dealt with the things that kids in Jersey City dealt with and, you know, went to Rutgers. Went to regular college. And now, like I said, I’m living in this town and we are comfortable and, again, I haven’t done anything outside— I landed at Cisco as an engineer. Statistics would tell you that is not very likely but I never saw it that way. I just sort of lived my life and did what I thought was interesting and this is where I ended up. So I don’t think there’s anything impressive I’ve ever done except just ignore the world and keep going, keep moving forward.

8. Anything? Like I never thought I— I’m not an athletic person but I’m into this it’s called Orange Fitness Theory or something. So I started that a year ago. It’s just a mom friend encourage me to go so I tried it out. It’s pretty intense. It’s an hour class. It’s row, treadmill, and weight combined and you work out; your heart rate goes up it’s orange because your heart rate goes up to a range; it keeps orange or even red so that you burn more calories so that in an hour I can burn 400, 500 sometimes— that’s a lot for me. At the beginning I never thought that I could last; I thought this is a month thing. But then I just kept going back so I’ve been doing twice a week for more than a year now. So because I’m doing that, I’m eating healthier, pay attention to what I eat so I think overall I’m healthier as well and that helps you. The more workout you do the more energetic you are. Before I never realized that. I’m so tired! How can I go work out? I don’t get these women probably ran 2 miles, 3 miles every day and now I get it! Because once you’re into this mood or this momentum or this routine you keep going back. I never know I could do this. I don’t think I ever miss a class. And that also helped me doing tennis because it’s not just technique; you need the strength, the stamina, because you need to run. How do you last an hour running around? This helps. So it helps me better at tennis as well. It helps me enjoy it. And now I get it, like, before— I’m Chinese— so sports is not a big thing for us— stereotype again— but now I get it because, like, it bring so much joy to you and energy and joy so I get it now. I get it when I’m 37 but at least I get it now.

9. I always think about, well, who thinks it’s impressive? I think my family would say just being a mom. That’s what my husband would say— just being able to balance everything. He always says that I do it all and that I’m always improving. I always try to improve so I’m never complacent. I always am looking for the next improvement and I think that’s impressive.

10. Oh my gosh, as a mom? The most impressive thing I’ve ever done. That’s hard; that’s a good question. What have I done that’s impressive. I don’t know. I don’t feel like I’ve done anything impressive. I’m thinking. Impressive. Ah, I know. So when I try to explain to my son what happened to the moon when the moon was first formed the way that it hit Earth. It was called Theia. I was explaining to him a scientific idea because sometimes we watch videos together and we were watching a video of how the Earth was first formed and he wasn’t fully understanding it. So I broke it down for him and he liked the way I explained it to him; I was trying to tell him: first it crashed into the Earth and he was like, “why did it crash into the Earth?” And I try to explain to him about gravity. And I think he’s starting to understand what these things mean. And he’s like, “what is gravity?” Well when the ball rolls down the hill you can see the force of gravity. So he was starting to get it. He liked that we were talking about it. His eyes lit up because it’s something that he really enjoys thinking about. So I think I felt satisfied at that moment because it was the first time that I explained something to him scientifically that I felt like he understood. Normally if he doesn’t understand he would ask more questions or say I don’t get it. I think he understood how I explained it and I thought, okay, he got it. Great. So that was kind of cool.

What else? Sometimes he asks me to draw things that I don’t think I can draw. And I’m like, I can’t draw this 3-D dinosaur that you want me to draw. Then I started drawing it and that came out pretty well, like you could identify it. I was like, “do you know what it is?” he was like, “yeah, I get it, it’s a dinosaur.” I’m like, “do you like it?” “Yes.” I’m like, okay solved. Problem solved.

Other things are, sometimes we get compliments from other people when they see us explaining things to him. Little moments and I don’t think it’s impressive, per se, but it’s nice to get that positive feedback. I was once explaining to my son why it’s important to wash his hands and what germs are and it’s important to use the lacing your hands method and that kind of thing and one lady came up to us when we were in Savannah, Georgia and she said, “wow, I can’t believe you take the time to explain that to him.” So she seemed to like that and I thought to myself, most moms probably do that, but it was nice that she acknowledged that. It was one of those moments where you thought, maybe I’m getting better. Maybe I’m on the right track. So those are my moments, my little moments.

11. I put my very high-flying career back to be with my children. It was very, very, very hard. But I really had to sit down multiple days just all by myself to figure this out that: is this the right thing? And initially I kept on feeling: it’s not the right thing for me. I put in so many years of education. But then I just was not happy that I did not have enough time for my kids. And I was like, you know what, it was very hard but I just think it was one of the best things I have done for myself and my family. But more for myself than my family I would think.

12. Mom: School was easy. Motherhood was hard. I would say motherhood. That’s the most impressive thing for me because school came easy and that all went fine but I think motherhood. Motherhood is hard.

Daughter: I would second that in terms of— I don’t think there’s any one thing that I feel particularly proud of. And I don’t think I’ve necessarily handled early motherhood with all of the grace and strength that one might hope for. But more than I thought. More than I suspected. Like the day after he was born I thought: I’m not gonna make it; this isn’t gonna work. So I think— I don’t know. I think that I’ve had a baby that people say seems happy and that I also had to fill out my third year tenure statement while I was, like, a few weeks out. I was like, hand him over to mom for two hours. That I was still able to do those things. Not necessarily as well as I could have before and maybe I wasn’t quite as in tune a mother because I was doing those other things but the fact that I tried to do everything and he still seems okay. Statement turned out fine.

Being able to build a life— that I’m starting to build that life that brings in the things that I care about and the people I care about is what I’m most proud of. But it’s still a work in progress. And some days I think I’m just not doing either and other days I wake up with more of a positive attitude and I think: I’m doing it! I’m doing it. He took a nap on me, then I gave him to his dad and I wrote those three emails and that’s what I did.

13. You’re saying in general—

I think the most impressive thing I’ve ever done is— I think it’s committing to my relationship with my husband. Just to choose— like I said I’m a pretty type A person so I feel like I’ve had other more impressive accolades. I’m ambitious and I want to achieve things. But truthfully the hardest thing for me is that choice to every day get up and show love to someone in whatever form that needs to take for that day and to choose to do that over and over and over again as you both evolve as people. Being able to do that probably for me is the most impressive.

14. Gosh I don’t know. I don’t know that it’s the most impressive thing but I think it was really difficult when my dad was sick trying to be there for my mom, my brother and also raise children and have a spouse. I think going through a difficult time like that was super challenging and somehow everyone was still okay in the long run if that makes sense. I don’t know, I think getting to the other side of that was really big.

15. I think it’s in the future because it’s not yet. The most impressive thing I’ve ever done. Like as a parent or in general? I mean I guess you could say the most impressive thing I’ve ever done is have kids but it’s not that it’s that impressive; I mean, you have sex and then you have a baby so it’s kind of amazing that that’s how it works. For some people. For some people it’s different.

I think if my kids wind up being well-adjusted good citizens of the world I’ll feel really good about that. I just realized I don’t have full control over that. I don’t know. The balance of running a business, starting it, and then having a family and trying to keep all the balls in the air? But I don’t know if that’s impressive as much as literally what’s needed for survival. I don’t know. I’d have to give that some thought.

16. I would say the most impressive thing that I’ve ever done would probably also be the hardest points in my life and there were two. One was when I was 19 and my dad died very suddenly. I think people can take adversity and sadness and grief and shock and they can do one of two things: they can face it and overcome it or they can succumb to it and just let it drag them down and use it as an excuse. I sort of just was like, okay, this is my new reality and so, you know, I finished college and I was like, I’m gonna go for my Master’s. And I worked full time, I went to school, and I put myself through two Master’s programs. I wasn’t handed anything. I had to work and earn for every single thing that I have. And I think that that shapes you. It makes you stronger and it makes you— you are hungry— I was hungry. I wanted to do it and I like doing things myself because I like the way I feel when I do things for myself. What was the question again?

So that was one. The second one has to do with this little guy [her dog]. Back in 2011 I just wasn’t feeling right. I went to the doctor and they were like, “oh, you’re anxious you probably need a Xanax.” And I was like, “no, I’m not anxious. I’m anxious because I’m telling you that I don’t feel well and you’re not hearing what I’m saying.” So I was saying that my heart was pounding. It was beating really fast and I wasn’t exercising. They said, “oh, you’re probably having a panic attack” and I said – no. So I said, “listen, here’s what we’re going to do— give me a Holter monitor and let’s just see. What do you have to lose? Give it to me.” I had to advocate for myself and speak up on my behalf. Long story short, I did have a heart condition called SVT where the electricity in your heart— everybody has a pathway that regulates how many times your heart beats in a minute. My heart had an extra pathway so that when the electricity took the wrong path my heart would speed up and race. Even if I was sitting on the couch my heart rate would get up to like 190. And it feels weird. And it sort of messes with you because it was right when I was like, you know, thinking we were going to start to have a family and like, can I have kids? Should I divorce my husband so he can go meet somebody else so that he can have kids?

So I went through it. One procedure was unsuccessful; they couldn’t do it. And I was like I’m not going to be on medicine for the rest of my life. Understand that I am a big ball of puss: needles, everything freaks me out. And I think a lot of it has to do with my dad dying very suddenly, like, I’m a little bit of a hypochondriac. And I think it stems from losing him suddenly. But I found another doctor and I went to him and he’s like I can fix you and I’m like let’s go. I’ve got shit to do, I want to have kids, I want to get back to me. He fixed me. I went in cold turkey. No sedatives, nothing, up— like up— in the OR, like, they put two catheters up your groin, and they basically put this thing on your heart and they flick it. I couldn’t believe I was doing it; I was like oh my God I’m such a badass. But he fixed it. And that got me— I was like if I can do that, I’m pretty good.

So it relates to my dog because when I first got sick after the first time they couldn’t ablate me successfully my husband got me a dog. And this is him— and he is my little buddy. He makes me feel better. So I would say those are the two things.

My dad had an infection that got into his blood stream and he died of septic shock. My dad was someone who never went to the doctor. I saw him go to the doctor two days before he died. And they told him that he just probably had an ear infection that’s why he was dizzy. I wish sometimes— when I was in my procedure I remember I was like— Dad, you gotta come down and do me a solid. I was like get me through this, push me through it, give the doctor strength. I’m tired of being scared all the time that I’m going to have an episode. I’m angry a little bit sometimes because he should have gone to the doctor. He missed a lot. I had just graduated from high school so I didn’t even start my life, really. He just missed a lot. But, you know, it is what it is. I think he’s here. I think he sees stuff or that he’s aware. You have to have that little inkling of somehow— It shaped who I am though.

What happened to me in my childhood or my life that made me face it and not succumb to it? That’s something I think about when I raise my kids. They have it a little differently than I had it. I was a little hungrier. I didn’t live in a big house. We had a nice apartment; it was an apartment. We weren’t rich by any stretch of the means but I was happy and I never thought about stuff like that.

I want my kids to have character. I don’t want them to think that everything just comes to them. I want them to see that other kids don’t have stuff. Because you have a nice room full of— you have a playroom. I didn’t have a fucking playroom. I had a couple of dolls, some board games and that was it. If I had ever said I don’t want to play with this anymore my mother would have chucked that shit in the garbage and been like, okay! Sometimes I’m a little— I don’t want to say ghetto or tough with them— but I threw away one of their toys once because she was like “I don’t want that” And I was like “garbage.” And she was shocked. Yeah. There are kids that don’t have toys to play with or don’t have a snack to eat, or clothes or a book to read, or whatever the case is. I want them to understand the world is not rainbows and butterflies, but at what age do you teach that? My mom’s like, well maybe wait a little while. Because it builds character. It’s going to build your character. But I don’t know how to teach that. Do you have to live it in order to understand it? My kids have a fucking pool in our yard. You know what I mean? You’re lucky, right? They do chores. I’m like, “make your bed.” My older daughter is like I don’t know how. And I’m like, “no problem, I’ll help you.” The playroom’s a mess. When they come home they’re going to clean it. Because if they don’t, I’m going to grab a garbage bag. You’re going to learn. I really think about that a lot. They’re not living it. And I think that you learn things through experience.

17. I should say the children. But I don’t know. That’s a really great question. I’m really proud of the fact that I worked my whole life to get a college scholarship to FSU to play soccer. But I mean if I really want to say impressive— that I’m a mom right now. It’s still— like I said— when I walk through the city I’m like, I can’t even believe sometimes that I’m not just thinking of myself. I thought about myself a lot. I’m not a super selfless person. I mean I am with friends but I’m pretty self-focused and now that I’m not so self-focused it’s definitely, I guess, impressive that I’m more focused on two other people. I have no big feat.

18. Hm. Well obviously just physically birthing a child is a miraculous and intense event that if somebody asked me if I would be able to do it before I did it I would say no. And I only had that experience once; I’ve heard from other people it gets a little better over time. Becoming a mom was definitely one of them. I don’t feel like I have any other huge momentous accomplishments. There are things in my life I derive pleasure from, there are things I think I’m good at but motherhood is probably the most important thing I think I’ve done.

19. Wow. That’s so interesting. What is the most impressive thing that I have ever done? I’m a girl from the Bronx with awesome parents and very humble beginnings and I do think it’s pretty impressive how my parents’ upbringing have let me to where I am because things could have gone very wrong very many a day. Our building was nice but the neighborhood was not the greatest. It was rough. It was rough, you know? There weren’t those expectations. They don’t expect where I come from— the fact that I went to private school— everybody teased me and called me uppity. It just was not the expectation to rise and to— even just to become a homeowner, to go to college. But those were my parents’ goals. To me, the most impressive thing I’ve done for my family was to be a college graduate. My mother went but she went after she already had children and they wanted me to go. That’s not the way that you should go but they wanted me not to struggle. So my family, the most impressive thing I think, which is probably something that’s very simple for others but it wasn’t for my family at all was to go to school on time and graduate.

And for myself— probably my career. I’ve done a lot of good things in my career. While they’re small things for some people, I know that there’s a lot of children out there in the world today that will remember me, you know? My homeless kids, I got people to donate money to take them on a trip to Sesame Place and they were just so grateful and so happy. I changed that homeless shelter around so that my kids were ready when they went to school. Because back then in NYC you didn’t have to go to school till first grade. So they didn’t have to go to Kindergarten. So a lot of them were going to first grade and just didn’t know anything. They didn’t know their ABCs yet and they were just already behind. So we had an on-site childcare and I worked with them to make sure that these kids knew something. I told the parents: bring those children down. If they didn’t bring the children down I sent the workers up to get them. I don’t care if the kid’s in their pajamas, bring them down and let them learn. So I feel like there’s a lot of families out there that feel strengthened from my work and I’m very proud of that. I want to make a difference if you can. I want to give them what I had. And a lot of people just don’t know. They don’t have the information. If New York City says you don’t have to send your kids to school till first grade then, okay, I’m a 21 year old mother; I’ll send them in first grade. They don’t know. So things have changed since then and now they have a Pre-K 3 and they can start going from 3 years old but before that it wasn’t. Personally that’s what I’m most proud of. Those little things.

20. Raising two incredible children who I just adore and love with every ounce of who I am.

21. Like besides this? I do feel like this business is a big deal for me and it feels in many ways like my first child. And they feel like— obviously I love him more than I love my business— but it feels like a similar life accomplishment.

22. I can’t think of anything.

23. [No response.]

24. As a mom? Or like before? I don’t know that there’s a specific instance that comes to mind. There must be something where I’m like that was awesome. In my head there’s some sports-related things that I was like, that was really great. But, like, that’s not the most impressive thing I’ve ever done. I think of it like a specific time or instance where I did something that I felt was, like, above and beyond or that came naturally to me that was, like, other people wouldn’t necessarily have done it. Or like it almost feels like a defining moment. When you say what’s the most impressive thing. If it were like an early promotion or saving someone or I’m not sure. What do other people say?

I don’t know. The first thing that comes to mind is like, what are my characteristics that define me? When have I displayed that in a major way? My first thoughts are like when have I stood up for other people when they haven’t stood up for themselves or when have they needed help and I was there? But those are small moments that weren’t small for me and them but small in that, like, those are more everyday things. The first thing that came to mind, and this wasn’t even that impressive, but like my daughter got— one of the hardest days I ever had— she is really good at the doctor. She loves it. She talks about shots and vaccines all the time. It’s not a big deal. And she had all these splinters and she lost it. She was in the doctor’s office and they had to take them out and she’s screaming and they had to put her in the papoose and it was terrible and I came home and I was so drained. I had to look away from her so she couldn’t see that I was crying because I was like, this is terrible this is everything you don’t want to be happening. So in my own head it’s impressive that I was able to get through that, but like, not really because 1. You don’t have a choice and 2. It had to happen and lots of moms have to do that all the time so it’s not particularly impressive; but that was something that came to mind so it must have been something that made a big impression on me.

I think of it as something that makes you stand out in a way like who you are and— not better— just everyone has their strengths so, like, this is where you’re excelling. So in my head the way that I excel is my ability to be there for other people so I’m trying to think of a time when I was really there for someone else but a lot of those are smaller day-to-day things. I don’t know. I’d have to think about it. I’m sure there’s something.

This isn’t impressive to me but my husband travels a lot and it’s fine but then I have to maintain two kids and two dogs and that’s not that big a deal to me because this is my life. But we were at my parents’ beach house and I didn’t bring the dogs and one of the kids was like why didn’t you bring them and I was like well your mom and dad asked me not to and their mom was like, “well it’s a lot for your aunt to handle two kids and two dogs” and I was like, “that is my life: two kids and two dogs.” Maybe it’s a lot but I don’t think it’s a big deal so maybe that’s what’s impressive: my ability to manage the day-to-day without feeling super overwhelmed all the time. So maybe that’s it: just like, I’m impressed with my own ability to manage our day-to-day without feeling overwhelmed. But I don’t think that’s the most impressive thing I’ve ever done. That’s just me figuring out life. This is like doing life.

25. I mean I would say having these two kids. That and the postpartum sex after 6 weeks because you’re taking one for the team there’s just no doubt about it. There’s just no winners there. Well your husband— your partner’s the winner. But definitely having the kids.

After my first— she was born in early November. So right around Christmastime was like the 6 weeks and I was like, alright merry Christmas here we go let’s try it. And it was horrible. And I didn’t think it was going to be that bad because I had a C-section. I was like oh, it’ll be fine. It was horrible. I felt like worse than being a virgin again. I was like take it out. Take it out. I don’t know what we need to move this process forward but this is horrible. And it took us a few months for me to feel like I wasn’t sacrificing myself. Not to be too graphic.

26. As a mother? Hm. I don’t know. That’s an interesting question. I don’t think I’m a particularly impressive person. This is going to sound like nothing. It really isn’t much but I would say managed— I don’t know— sometimes I think keeping two children alive is impressive. So I’ll go with that. Keeping two children healthy, happy and alive and also managing without losing my mind when I was 9 months pregnant with a 4 year old when my husband was in the hospital with his appendectomy. Not like a marathon or anything but, you know. That’s where my mind goes. 

27. Giving birth. I’ll tell you a funny story: I remember when they wheeled me out of the delivery room with my first and I looked around and I thought to myself: everyone here was born. Somebody had to go through this for every person walking on the Earth. I was astounded. 

Coming up: Mom Talk – Part 12: What do you want most?

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Mom Talk – Part 10

Question: Are you happy?

I will admit “are you happy?” pre-pandemic and “are you happy?” post-pandemic look different. We’ve been socially isolating for 2 months now. Am I happy? I mean yes. But I’m sad my kids can’t be with their friends and teachers and I am very aware that no matter how much I try they are not going to be as prepared for the next grade as they would have been if they had been in school this whole time. And I’m distraught over the kids who are simply unable to keep up with school work whether it’s because their parents are working or they don’t have a computer or internet. And I’m struggling to understand how we as a society are going to rectify the massive inequalities that are emerging as a result of this pandemic especially for the kids. I’m so sad for the kids. I’m anxious about the future. I’m scared to get too close to my friends but I am desperately missing them. I am worried. I am confused about what the world will look like when we go back into it. And then I feel a tremendous sense of guilt because I am in a position to feel all of these feelings and then close the door on them and fall back on happiness. Yes the world is crumbling around us but I have the luxury of staying inside and maintaining my health. Yes the future is uncertain but we are, for the moment, secure.

Am I happy? Yes, thank God. Are other moms happy? They used to be. I don’t know how their answers would be different now and maybe they wouldn’t be different at all. Moms base their happiness on so many things:

Happiness based on balance. Happiness based on gratitude and acknowledging good fortune. Happiness based on no regrets. Happiness based on acknowledging imperfections in self and life and striving for better. Happiness based on self-actualization and independence. Happiness based on achievement of childhood dreams but not contentment— wanting more. Happiness despite hardships and challenges. Happiness despite not having the life you imagined. Happiness based on good relationship with partner. Happiness based on gratitude. Happiness based on children but still striving to achieve the life you imagined. Happiness based on living life goals but fear of what now? Happiness even though there are other feelings too. Happiness based on satisfaction with life— not feeling jealousy or envy for someone else’s life. Happiness based on accepting the life that unfolded. Happiness despite envy and what if.

The answers:

1. That’s a loaded question. In many ways yes, but I’ll always play the what-if game. In most ways yes. But I’ll always play the what-if game.

2. Mhm. Yes. I can say that I’m happy. There are other things that go on in my life that I’m not happy about but motherhood is not one of them.

3. Yes! Oh my God. I have so much to be grateful for. I was having lunch with a friend of mine who’s the same age as me in the city. She’s turning 40 this year and she’s like, “you know I’m so depressed I’m turning 40” and I’m like really? You are beautiful you have beautiful children who are healthy and doing great you have a great marriage you are very fortunate financially you have a lot of opportunity and options and prosperity. You have so much to be grateful for turning 40 and you have so much to look at and be proud of and, you know, there should be no reason to be upset turning 40. And then I got it out of her that there was a little piece missing. But, for the most part, I look at my life and I’m like— I have everything and more than I could have hoped for and yes, I am happy.

4. Um, mostly. Like I’m an optimistic person and my gestalt is happy but not universally happy, you know? Not every minute. Not about every thing. Like, I read the newspaper and I want to dive under the deck and I feel super unhappy but I’m happy right now talking to you.

5. Yeah. Yeah I’m really happy. I think I feel really lucky I found a really good balance between working and being with my kids and I don’t know what the future holds. Maybe someday I’ll have scaled down at work or maybe I’ll take a break or whatever, but right now I really like my job; I like what I do and it really allows me the flexibility to still do drop off if I want to sometimes or pick up when I want to or be home during the day if I want to or get coffee on a Tuesday morning. So I really love that most of the time I feel like I have this good balance going. I feel like the kids really do feel my presence, like, I don’t think that they think I’m absent during the week at all. So yeah. I wouldn’t change anything. I’m really happy with where we are and I really like my husband and our relationship.

6. Of course. Absolutely. I am so lucky. It’s really, to me, a matter of gratitude. I am beyond— in my wildest dreams I could never have imagined that I would have this life. And I have a very regular— like I’m in sales— I have a very regular job. My husband has, you know, in our circles he’s like a big deal, but we both have regular jobs. We live in this nice town but it’s not like, you know, we’re not like changing the world. Maybe my husband is changing the world a little but we’re very regular people and I feel like we’re comfortable. We don’t have to worry about feeding our kids; our biggest problem is where are we going to send them to summer camp. I am the luckiest person in the world. I have no complaints about any of this. I am very, very lucky and I think as long as I keep seeing it that way I’ll be happy. I think once I start thinking about: well, I wish I had this, I wish I had that then maybe I won’t be happy. But I’ve been completely blessed.

7. Yeah. I’m happy and I’ll say I’m also always feeling that I’m so far from perfect and so far from being where I’d like to be or what I think I ought to be doing. So I probably view myself as a failure every day. But a happy one. A happy one in the sense: I know I’m doing my best— I’m reassessing all the time and I know I’m trying to do what I think is important and what’s important is redefining all the time. But yeah, I’m definitely happy. I don’t have any regrets as such. Always things I feel like I can do better.

8. I would say yes, especially now I find my passion I’m happier. Because at the beginning of the year or last year I wasn’t sure because I think we’re moving but I couldn’t figure out what I can do there so I have my doubt. But now I figure out what can keep me busy. Also independence sort of from my husband because I never really wanted to rely on him. So I have my independence; I’m happy. And the kids will be with the Dad so we’re happy. Maybe we have a moment later on in life so come back to me in 6 months.

9. Yes.

10. I am. I mean, I want another child. So I don’t know if it’s the difference between happy and content, you know, I would say that I’m happy but I’m not content. I do want that other child to round things out. I want my son to have another child to play with and to do all the things that kids do with their brothers and sisters and I just want him to have another reference point besides his parents and his nanny. I want him to interact with children more too and that’s why we try to schedule a lot of playdates. But when you are a mom of a single child you are spending a lot of time playing and you do want to see that shift over to time that he’s spending with other children to play. So I do want to have that.

But I would say that I’m happy in a way that I always wanted to be and I never knew— it was never a guarantee to me that it was going to happen. When I was a little girl, my father and mother of course always talked to me about, you know, you’re going to be married and have kids and this and that and it was always this distant dream. In my twenties and thirties I was working in the city and I had broken an engagement when I was in my late twenties and I had some bad experiences with guys and there was a couple of let downs that had happened. Actually two engagements broken that were smart to break. But I felt time ticking and I was worried that I was going to run out of time. So for me it was the biggest joy finding out that I was pregnant and I actually didn’t know until I was four and a half months, fully. But it did, it filled my whole body. I felt so much happiness coursing through my body the moment that I found out. It gave me the chills and I was like yes. The universe just said yes to me to this one thing that I’ve wanted my entire life. And it was the happiest, happiest moment. Beyond getting married, beyond any of that. That moment when I found out pregnancy it was like a giant yes. The universe was cooperating in a way that I wanted and it was so satisfying and so I want another one. I’m happy but not content.

And also, beyond wanting another child there’s obviously other things I want too. We want to get a dog and we have a couple other things on our list that we need to get or that I think that would be good for all of us. I think pets are good for kids too.

11. Oh yes. I’m very happy.​

12. Daughter: Yes. I happen to be going through a lot of changes. I also left my job. We’re also moving. So I’m feeling a little bit overwhelmed right now by everything that needs to happen with the baby but I wouldn’t change anything. I still laugh a lot and smile a lot and he’s the main reason why. I’m scared of him but, you know, fear is a kind of happiness too, right?

Mom: You know, my motherhood now is really mostly gone. Except for supervising. I’m happy with my husband. I’m getting old so I have to face all these hard things and health things but on the whole in my life, I mean, I want to get rid of this house. But I’m happy with the most important things in my life. I’m happy, yeah.​

13. It’s interesting you’re asking that. Unrelated to this 2019 has been a hard year for me and I feel like I was really pretty unhappy between 2 and 4 or 5 it was a pretty tough time. My brother was like, “are you sure this is the right time to do this with everything going on?” Most of the unhappiness was sourced from work stuff. And I was like, “you know, I actually think maybe because of that it’s the best time.” I feel like number 1— I didn’t want this work drama going on to compromise anything else. It had already taken so much sacrifice and had depleted me in so many ways that I was like I’m not willing to let it compromise this other thing I’ve really wanted to do. I also feel like it forces me to have perspective. It forces me to have something else in my life that reminds me of what actually is important. And so I think I would say I am happy and there is no one thing that can cause that to be happy or not but I think that this experience has actually helped that for the most part.

When I’m having the worst day at work or, you know, feel like my whole company is falling apart, my son doesn’t give a shit about that. He doesn’t know anything about any of that. And there’s something really freeing about that. It’s like oh right this is like all in here. All of this unhappiness—

14. Yeah, I would say so. I feel like ultimately I always thought of myself as hoping to be a stay-at-home parent and that wasn’t in the cards for us, which is fine. I do feel like I have a fairly well-rounded life. I think I have the best of both worlds being a teacher and being off in the summertime, like, I kind of get to do that a little bit but at the same time I have a job. I do think mentally I think it’s a nice thing for me to have work sometimes although I said this year was really challenging and that did, I think, affect my family just in the sense that I think I said I didn’t have as much patience; I was more tired, that kind of thing. But I think overall, you know, I have a well-balanced life. I have a partner that really shares a lot of the work with me. He’s a good dad so I think our relationship is good. Like I said, I wish we had a little more time to ourselves but I think that’s just part of the nature of this stage of the game with little kids. Overall I would say I am.

15. Yes I am. I feel like I have— and this is something I’m so grateful for— again I don’t take credit for this because I feel like it was something I was somehow imbued with at birth— I feel very fulfilled almost always. And I think I would feel that way if I lived under a bridge. I have a very— and I do feel like this is a gift because I do know so many people who feel tortured on a daily basis and I hope that’s never me— I am really grateful because for the most part I feel really good. Even when things, situations, and they’re have been plenty of those where I’m like— that sucks— growing up, through marriage, through whatever. There are difficult things all the time. For whatever reason, and again I don’t know what I did to deserve it, for the most part I’m like: everything is going to be fine. It’s all good. So yes. And probably therapy helps.

16. Yes, I am.

17. Yeah. I mean yes. I don’t— yeah. I’m definitely happy. Sometimes I think could I be happier? But then I wouldn’t know what to tell you. I mean could I be happier if I traveled to Europe more this year? Like— yes.

18. Yes. It depends on when you ask me. Yeah, no, I’m pretty happy. It always feels like just when I’m comfortable and happy that some big change happens. But that’s just life. But right now I feel pretty content, yeah.​

19. I’m happy with my children. I’m not where I want to be in life so I don’t think I’m happy with myself. But I’m happy with my family. You know? I am very happy in that way and grateful because I know where I come from. So I have definitely ascended from where I come from but I’m not quite where I want to be. So you know I have mixed feelings on that.

20. I have never been happier in my life.

21. Yes. Yeah. I feel like— you know I used to always write my goals. I still do. I feel like I’m living inside them now, which is really cool. And it’s also sort of unnerving because I’m like— now what? But yeah. I’m like wildly happy. Couldn’t be happier.

22. Yes. I’m happy with my life. I’m very satisfied with my life. Of course there’s days that I’m angry. Of course there’s days that I’m sad. But by and large I’m happy. I don’t wish I was somebody else. I don’t wish I had something I didn’t have— not just material, just anything.

23. Completamente.

24. Mhm. Yeah. I am. I think before I sort of struggled to find a career that really suited me. I didn’t love always what I was doing or I’d love what I was doing but I always struggled with the bureaucracy and the things you’d have to do in order to get ahead and you’d have to think about yourself a lot. Not that I don’t think about myself but I was always on a team and that really worked for me, like playing sports and that feel of being on a team and working hard towards a common goal with other people. And jobs just aren’t like that because even when they are it’s your life so you have to get ahead and sometimes you have to step on other people and I see why good people do that and it didn’t work for me. So I always thought I’d find a great career and be a part-time stay-at-home mom or like, find a way to work some flexibility in so I could do the things but I always wanted to stay home for at least 6 months and for whatever reason I had that in my head, like, 3 months I could just see it. Even before I knew anything about it, it just seemed like not enough. So I did and I was going to go back to work and look for another job. I was like, I don’t want to do this. Even the jobs that I was looking for that felt right I’d go on an interview and be like— it wasn’t there. I didn’t have the drive or the passion or the enthusiasm that I would have had a year prior. So once I really settled in to accepting being a stay-at-home mom and what that meant and stepped back outside of what I thought I wanted if I looked at my day-to-day I was— I am and was really happy. The things that made me unhappy weren’t being a stay-at-home mom, they were more like the transitional things. Moving was really hard. Just the adjustment of identity. And once I recognized that I realized, well, I’m really happy so why am I not feeling really happy? Because I really like what’s happening so I had to marry my life to whatever mental image I thought had or hadn’t been there. Whatever plan. And again that goes back to me recognizing that I need to just relax and recognize that. But I am. I am really happy. I don’t know what life I pictured, though I guess, theoretically, I grew up 15 minutes away: this is not all that different than what I would have pictured. But I mean I couldn’t ask for anything better. I feel really lucky. We have two healthy kids, we have this really great house, we have all these nice neighbors. We’re safe. That doesn’t mean that person is happy. But I am actually. And I think that’s why I can be kind of relaxed about things or feel good about it. Because everything thus far has worked out so nicely that, I don’t know, I’m sure it’ll work out again, whatever it is.

25. Yeah I’d say ultimately I am. It’s hard. I feel like, again, this is just stock answer but it’s easy to just slip into envy when you see social media stuff: oh this is what their life is like and maybe what you want— certain wants versus needs— but I think yeah. I’m happy. I am. And maybe this is unhealthy but I’m a happier person with my kids than I was without them. Certainly. My first child definitely opened up something in me that probably wasn’t there before. This is going to sound so silly but I tell this story like how funny it is how, much we take for granted. The first time she was on her play mat and she heard a noise and looked towards it and developmentally she was at a spot where she knew to look towards a noise and obviously her hearing had been tested, she could hear, but she didn’t know enough to look towards a noise and it was amazing and I was like: she is a genius; this is incredible. And then I realized how much B.S. we don’t even consider or think about. And seeing her experience things makes me so happy and makes me so happy to be alive and to be with my husband and to have these kids. I’m grateful for all of that. So I’d say yeah I’m happy. Ultimately.

26. Yes.

27. Yes. I feel very, very happy. Very, very lucky. I cannot tell you how lucky I feel. I have the best family in the world and the best daughter in law, the most accomplished. I don’t know how. The best mother for my grandchildren that could ever be. So yes I feel very, very lucky.

Coming up: Mom Talk – Part 11: What is the most impressive thing you have ever done?

Mom Talk – Part 8

Question: What is the range of emotions you feel on a typical day?

If there were a manual given to every woman everywhere in the world upon the birth of her first child I believe it would begin: Welcome to motherhood. You will be tired for the rest of your life. First and foremost and above all else I feel exhaustion. I can drink a pot of regular coffee in the afternoon and fall asleep on a rock at 8. My brain is tired. My body is tired. My heart is tired. I don’t know if it’s an emotion exactly but exhaustion is the underlying condition that impacts all other feelings. Here are some synonyms for tired: exhausted, weary, annoyed, bored, distressed, drained, exasperated, fatigued, irritated, overworked, sleepy, stale, beat, consumed, haggard. Yes. That’s it. That’s motherhood.

[I feel like you can tell I wrote all this before social isolation because the next feeling I talk about is rushed. These days I definitely don’t feel rushed and I will admit it is one of the blessings of our current situation that we aren’t constantly rushing everywhere all the time. I fully expect that when the world reopens the new normal will still involve rushing.]

I feel rushed— I feel like I did not fully understand— and sometimes it still surprises me— the time it takes kids to do things. And there are so many things. Daily grind kind of things, after-school activity kind of things, obligation kind of things. We are constantly going somewhere and doing something and even when we have an afternoon free I find myself rushing to relax. Come on! Let’s relax!

I feel: guilty when I take time for myself; amazed at how real my children are; relief at how lucky I am; frustrated when I feel like no one listens and everyone is screaming to be heard. I feel it all. I don’t think there’s a single feeling I don’t feel.

It’s strange to feel happy and sad and love and hate and peace and anxiety and amusement and annoyance all potentially within the same hour, but that is the motherhood experience. It’s constantly feeling. There’s never a moment when your amygdala is simply disabled. You might feel feelings consecutively and you might feel them concurrently and it’s all normal. If you feel sad and happy at the same time that’s normal. If you feel rage and pride at the same time that’s normal. If you feel frustrated and relieved at the same time that’s normal. It’s all normal. You’re not alone.

The answers:

1. Love, frustration, rage—that’s it.

2. One of my goals as a mother is whenever I wake my daughter up in the morning or she wakes me is to be happy and to start that day off right. That’s something I try to do. I’m fairly consistent with it. I just start it off happy and then move into rushed and then I’m in the Batman phase and I’m using my Batman voice and I’m late, I’m late, we’re late, we’re late, hurry up. But overall it’s pretty consistent. I wish I were more present at times but— being an entrepreneur— that’s been hard. That’s been a challenge and I’m constantly working on that but overall it’s just a pretty happy existence. Tired, but happy.​

3. I mean, what’s sad is like tired always is the first word that always comes to mind. I feel like I’m always tired. There’s never a moment that I just don’t want to lie down at some point. My husband’s like, “take a nap!” I’m like oh my God between work and the kids— no, I’m not taking a nap. I have to be honest: my days are very even. I’ve got a pretty well-oiled machine going on. My days are very even; my emotions are very even and everything is very, very nice and streamlined at this stage so I don’t think I have a range of emotions during the day. And you probably see that in me too. I’ve got a well-oiled system. I’m not saying I have it all together but I’ve got a system. Between the au pair, the fact that my marriage is really strong, the kids have a lot of structure at home, everyone is kind of on track, I’ve got the business. Everything is kind of where it needs to be. That’s the zone I’d like to stay in. I like that zone.

4. I feel: my son is hilarious so I feel laughy. I am so enchanted with his quiet but subtle and his clever personality. I feel anxiety about his future because he’s still— in production. And he’s got his IEP and his learning schtick and he’s really smart and he’s really smart— and with support he’s doing it but— what’s going to be? And for my daughter I feel: I’m so interested and proud and I watch her do amazing, amazing things. And she— her process is to take her anxieties and whatever’s gone wrong, dump them on me and then move on. So that’s part of the role I can provide to her and, you know, it’s part of her support mechanism. So I feel churn when she does that and I have to talk myself down: she’s gonna be fine, this is fine, she’s just dumped on you, you’ve seen this, you don’t have to carry this monkey, she’s taken it off of her and said, “here— would you hold this for me?” And I can pretend to say yes and not really do it. So that happens a lot, like, “I’m going to fail this test tomorrow.” Alright that’s never happened before but alright let’s go with that. And I feel a lot like I’m handling that wrong, like, she’s not looking for me to problem-solve. I know intellectually she’s looking for me to carry her monkey but I feel like I am Action Jackson and I want— I want to be strategic and I don’t want to just do things for the sake of doing things, but I am uncomfortable seeing something that needs to be done and not doing it. Like, I want to touch things once, I want to get a lot done. My life is like a Tetris game so if I have five minutes and there’s something I can do in five minutes I’m gonna pull it off the list and get that thing done. Same thing happened with my daughter: shampoo exploded— you want me to order new shampoo and send it to you? She can order the shampoo just fine, but even the emotional stuff like I’m trying to problem-solve. I’m trying to train myself not to offer solutions to her ’cause it’s not what she wants from me; it’s not what she needs. I have to get past this is not about me. It’s not helpful. It sends the wrong message. It sends like: I don’t think you can do this. I know she can do it. I, for a fact, know she can do it. She’s done big things. Giving them the opportunity to make mistakes. I should have said: I’m sure you’ll handle it. Let me know if there’s anything you need. She’s got her phone there’s nothing she couldn’t do.

5. I would say probably everything along the spectrum, every day. Lows feeling I’m not being a good mom when I’m going to work and then my daughter asks me to take her to school and I can’t because I’m going to work, and then highs when I get home from work and they’re running around and so excited to see me and having dinner, and then lows again because they didn’t finish their dinner and didn’t eat any of their vegetables, and then high again when they’re playing in the bath. I would say everything, all over.

6. Is tired an emotion? I would say the majority of my emotions are like— is it anxiety? It’s like I always have the next challenge to overcome. Like the week ahead of me. It’s like I can’t wait for this to be completed. I feel like I live my life in constant, like, okay when’s the next point when I can breathe because I feel very overwhelmed a lot. I don’t know. But then once I’m done breathing that quickly dissipates and then I’m overwhelmed again.

And maybe it’s just the time. We just moved and now our house is just sitting there abandoned basically. And our realtor keeps calling like when are you going to be ready to put it on the market? And we’re like we have stuff to do there’s just all these things. I’m always in the we have all these things to do mindset and not just me— it’s my husband too. I feel like he takes very good ownership of things as well. But I just always feel overwhelmed. I was talking to a coworker two days ago and I was like, “I need everybody else to take a vacation. I just want to be left alone.” He’s like, “you need a me-cation” and I was like, “no, I need an else-cation.” I need everybody else to just stop and go away. Like: world please stop for a minute so I can, like, have a coffee or watch Dead to Me. Binge it.

7. You know it’s funny because when we lived in London I used to say to my husband “our neighbors will never be our friends because they probably hear the screaming—” that morning routine screaming between, like, 7 and 8 AM and I’m like, “we’re getting judged— hard— nobody wants to be friends with us.” The mornings are probably, unfortunately, the worst time of day for us. It’s a mad rush. Everybody is trying to get out the door. We’re trying to get to work. And if things go wrong in the morning, unfortunately it just kind of sets the tone for the day. And if things are lovely and they’re really cooperative in the morning and we’ve had a nice start that kind of sets the tone. And we went through a period where, when we came back in the evenings, we were walking in at 6 and we had an hour to get everything in order before they go to bed so you’re in a mad rush. And similarly on the weekends we were finding ourselves in this, again, this rush because what we were doing is booking in all these activities on weekends ’cause— again— mom guilt. So I’m like I can’t do it on the weekdays so I’ll just pack it in on the weekends. And then I realized this is not what I visualized; this is not what I thought being a mother was going to be like or how I wanted it to be. I don’t want my relationship with them to be like I’m this time keeper basically, you know, constantly shuttling them around to the next thing.

And so we have revisited and we’ve cleared our schedule. So Saturdays are just about family time. We’re just doing nothing. Just relax. No rush. No schedule. And those days are probably the best days ’cause we’ll just be playing board games or we’ll cook together and it maybe means that my kids won’t be chess champions or whatever but actually I genuinely believe that if we go on in that way of constantly being in a rush they’re not going to want to be at home. They’re gonna be teenagers that are like: actually this is crazy and this is not fun and I’m just gonna go. So that’s definitely something we’re trying to work on— just really hone it back in and make it about family time.

I think it’s really easy to get pulled in so many directions and I think that’s what contributes to the roller coaster of emotions. I think if you pulled that out and just focused on spending time— that’s lovely and that’s beautiful and they’re gonna bicker but you can work through that if you’re not in a rush. Being in a rush is what makes it all dangerous. It makes it all so negative. And then you think: what’s that for? And is it really worth it? Probably not. So just like bringing it back to basics and simplifying back to more of what our parents did. And we shouldn’t underestimate that I don’t think. We shouldn’t underestimate how valuable that is to just have that down time, have that quality time and not always be trying to— I feel like we’re trying to fit this mold— become these ideal mothers that do everything and are president of the PTA and volunteering here and doing all this stuff at school but also doing all these amazing things as mothers and as women; and you’re just like we need to cut ourselves a break and be realistic about how much we can actually do without turning into a monster or into that screaming neighbor that I have been for so long.

8. Typical day, so. Morning is always get going, get going, get going! And if they’re behind or cranky you’re just like, “please we can’t be late!” Then you have a moment of quiet once they are out of the house. But then as the clock ticking by 3: oh my God they’re coming back. You do miss them during the day but as soon as they come back within the hour you’re like: uh I miss my quiet moment and they just have to drag through the night until they go to bed. The hardest time is when you’re cooking and they’re playing and they want your attention while you need to do the work or you need to cook. That’s the hard moment. Weekend is always hard because weekdays is always like a vacation to me. Yes, I have au pair to help me, but weekend they want me even if I have her they just want me. So if we have a monitor then we have a peak in the morning, a peak after they come back through dinner time, bed time, then moments of quiet again.

Since I’m been kind of busy and also I work with the Chinese team so there’s 12 hour difference so I usually work through midnight. And I like it because finally they’re in bed I can focus on your job.

The big thing for mother— you always function. You’re sick— you’re still functioning until they go to bed. You don’t have a sick day.

9. Tired. Love. Happiness. Anxiety. Grateful. And complete. That feeling of completeness. All of that.

10. A big range. There’s always a big range. Because I’m an older mother there probably isn’t a single day that I don’t wake up thinking this is the last day that he’s going to, you know, do this. I think about: he’s not going to need his swim diapers anymore; he’s moving now to the toddler stage. I’m very aware of time passing. I’ll get a little bit sad; I’ll get a little bit— oh my gosh he’s growing up; he’s losing a little bit of the baby fat in his cheeks and then at the same time, proud. I see he’s progressing in certain respects in terms of his art or in terms of the way he’s expressing himself and so I’ll feel that. And then I’ll feel joy because he makes me laugh, if my son says something funny to me and it’s pretty clever. He’s rhyming now so he’ll make a little poem and it’ll crack me up. I’ll feel a big range of emotions.

The other thing too, for us, we’re a little bit in a sandwich generation because my mother has Alzheimer’s. So I also feel conscious of time passing for her. I try to make the most of weekends, especially with my son and her. I’ll Facetime her and I’ll put him on there so that I make sure she gets her time with him. Because I don’t want to have any regrets when it comes to her, and especially with her and my son, so I want her to experience him as much as she can while she still remembers him and I want to keep him fresh in her memory for as long as possible. That’s a big thing. So yeah, we go through big emotions in every day. It’s definitely a lot.

And sometimes there’s frustration too. Obviously there’s a kid misbehaving; we have our moments or we’re feeling challenged and we don’t know how to get him to do something that we want him to do. There’s a negative side of it too. There’s definitely a whole range of feelings and some of those feelings are very big feelings.

11. Happiness to sadness to love. Fear. Of course it depends on a day-to-day basis. But I think they challenge us enough to feel the whole range of emotions in one single day.

12. Daughter: I can’t do this slash I’m doing this! I don’t know, what do you think?

Mom: Well for me it’s even now. Even keel. But I think when I see you I think that it’s amazing what you’re doing. How you maintain writing a book and working for the Los Angeles Review of Books and still being a mother. I think you maybe expected it was going to be—

Daughter: I kind of thought it was going to be easier. It all sounds really stupid now. I thought I’d just put him in a chair. Or strap him in and just do my day. Like the Good Earth, like the lady in the field I would just keep working the field with the baby strapped to my back except that the work I do wouldn’t be in a rice paddy but on a computer. And that people would be like, “oh my God you’re a mom?!” and I’d be like, “yeah I’m having this conference call while I breastfeed, whatever!” Instead of— because if I ever tried to take a call it would be like, “Ow! Good God he’s screaming I’ll call you back.”

We bought, like, an expensive Scandinavian bouncer because I read that this is so good and it doesn’t have a toy and I was like, he won’t need a toy, he’ll have his imagination. Then we bought a $19 one on Amazon. One where it’s like: spin, elephant! Spin! Beep Bope Bop. Do this. Do this for five minutes.

Mom: Amazon. Didn’t have to go to Denmark.

13. Desire to choke slam to frustration to fulfillment and reward to this is the most meaningful thing I have ever done.

14. That’s a loaded question! You want me to list them? That’s a good question. I have to think about it. I think in the morning I’ve never had an issue getting up. Well I shouldn’t say that. I’m definitely tired some mornings, don’t get me wrong. When the alarm goes off I get out of bed. I need to be productive and efficient and all that, all those good things in the morning. I think there’s a lot of: okay I have to get this done, I have to get this done. I think efficiency is an important word although that’s not an emotion. I guess worrying about the day to day stuff— getting everything done. Getting lunch boxes packed and backpacks ready with everything they need to do and I think a lot of that falls on Mom. My husband is very, very hands-on and I know I’m lucky in a lot of ways. There’s just a lot of dads who aren’t anywhere near as hands on as he is, but trying to always get things done— I feel like I’m always worried about doing that.

I like the time to myself in the car in the morning. On the way to work I really don’t mind that time because it’s a half an hour of quiet time kind of. I like to listen to music and kind of get myself psyched up for the day. And then during the day I think I’m so busy that it goes— it goes fairly quickly. And then when school’s over you’re thinking about all the things you have to do like after-school activities or things you have to do to get ready for dinner and then it’s like getting ready for the next day: laying out clothes and all that kind of stuff. So usually by the end of the day I’m completely exhausted. But I look forward to seeing my kids in the afternoon. I think that one of the perks of being a teacher is that I do kind of get the best of both worlds in a sense that I am able to spend a lot more time with my kids than your average full-time working parent who’s got a City job or whatever. But I do look forward to coming home to them at the end of the day and hearing about their day. That’s an exciting part of the day for me. But it is an exhausting day, for sure. And then trying to worry about feeding everybody and shower time and all that stuff. So I hope that answered the question.

15. From tired to tired. That’s pretty much it. In terms of one of the things I’ve learned about motherhood: that self-care, getting enough sleep, exercising— which was never one of my things. I’m really bad about that and very up and down. But I just recently discovered Pilates and it’s lovely. I think even you might really like it. It’s the reformer and it’s a good workout but it’s lovely and they’re not emotional terrorists and it’s just nice. They’re really nice. It’s just very manageable and I just love it. I look forward to it, I enjoy it when I’m there and I feel good when I leave. So I’ve tried to make that a priority to go 3 times a week. It feels so good; it feels good to my body. I don’t feel creaky.

Anyway, in terms of the one thing that I feel often is tired. It’s not that I’m not getting enough sleep. At the end of the day, and this is actually a little difficult for me because my natural circadian rhythm is from— without children? Well this is one of the things that I miss—

I do my best work at night. I love working at 3 o’clock in the morning. That’s when my creative juices are flowing. Left to my own devices and without kids I would sleep from like 3 to 11 AM. That would be my sleep time, which obviously is not viable with children. I have these ideas and I’m like, oh I’m gonna work on that after I put the kids to bed and then it’s like 9:30 and I’m dead to the world. But I can’t go to sleep yet. My body will not— I can get in bed, I can be so tired— but I will not be able to go to sleep until midnight or something. So I miss the ability to do that because I think I did good work that way— better work— but I think the fatigue— okay I’ll answer the real question.

I really do feel— and this was a surprise to me about being a parent because I really didn’t think I was going to be the really— you know you’re going to love your kids and it’s going to change your life for the better and whatever but I didn’t think I was going to be this person who loved motherhood so much. I love the moments of discovery or interesting conversations with them or singing them a song and seeing it comfort them. That stuff is so awesome to me. So that’s pure deep heart joy that I don’t know if I would have anticipated was my style.

Frustration? I really don’t get angry. My older son can be defiant— just so ridiculous sometimes. Or my younger son even who was the best baby ever but now is very willful. I don’t get mad, I’m just like, “come on, man, can we just go? Can you just get it together?” I say that to them I’m like, “I don’t have time for this” and sometimes it’s effective and they’re like okay she’s not buying it. I don’t get— the way the pediatricians say, “you can’t engage you can’t get riled up because they’ll prefer positive attention over negative but negative attention over no attention” that’s great for me because I have like one tempo and it’s pretty chill. I don’t get riled up. I’m like, “okay we’re going to need to go to your room now and we’re going to be late but no skin off my back.” But it’s more just like, come on, can you just be an adult? And the answer is no; the answer is no, not yet. So, frustration I guess.

For the most part I don’t feel like— and it’s partially because I work and I have a nanny— I’m not with them all the time. I would not be good at that. Being a full-time mom takes a very specific skill set that I do not have. I think it’s like any other job: there are certain things that I won’t be good at. I think I’m a really good mom, I really do. I pat myself on the back; I think I’m a good mom, great mom. I love the way I parent in so many ways but I would not be a good full-time mom. But I think for the most part I have generally positive feelings about motherhood and it’s probably partially because I can spend part of the day at a computer interacting with adults.

I think one of the hardest things about motherhood especially if you’re a stay-at-home mom is that it’s so constant. Any other job that’s constant— and I’m not sure if any other job is as constant— because it’s also the stakes are different. It’s not that they’re higher; they’re different. When I was in banking I was attached to my phone at all times. If someone sent me an email at 3 o’clock in the morning that was urgent it was my responsibility to respond. Which is crazy. Clearly I’m asleep. But I had two phones: one was for work and one was my personal phone. And if I got up to go to the bathroom and I saw an email from my manager and saw that she needed a Powerpoint presentation for 9 AM I would go up to my computer and create it. It was constant. But it’s different. First of all I didn’t have kids at the time and second of all, even when a role like that is constant it’s so frustrating to not be able to get away from it. So I think it’s true of anything that feels constant. And that is also I think they’re different. Because your detachment like “I fucking hate my boss” instead of like “oh this is my life forever.”

16. Oh my God everything? That’s why I think when you said— what was the first question— what word describes motherhood— insanity? It goes from loving insanely to being insanely angry. You go from happy to frustrated to annoyed or sentimental. It’s everything. There’s a meme that’s like a woman always has like 27,000 tabs open; we’re like a running computer, right? That’s what it is because we’re doing so many different things. That we feel so many different things. It’s because we’re so busy, you know?

17. Like, “oh my God I love you so so much” to like frustration and anger to guilt for feeling that way. Like generally I generally feel content with them. I get angry; they fight a lot at this stage. And of course then I have guilt. I always have guilt: am I spending more time with one than the other? Am I doing this or that? That’s a great question and probably the toughest one. I don’t know. It’s just— I go through a bunch where I’m like super happy, I love my family and everything’s great to then they do one thing that makes me go through the roof and then I really guilty that that happened. Then I feel really guilty that I want to spend time away from them. I feel like I’m not soaking it in. I feel like I should be more appreciative. Like, my younger son, all he wants to do is talk. We’re on a car ride and he’s talking the whole time. I want, like, two minutes of silence. Sometimes I think I’m parenting for the future which is not a good idea. I know there’s going to be a time where he doesn’t want to talk to me; he’s literally going to say nothing to me in this car and I’m going to be wishing that he would have a conversation with me but that doesn’t really help me right now. Like, I know it’s coming; I know that he’s going to be 10, 11, 12, 13 and he’s going to be like, “hey, Mom, fine, yeah” and I’m going to be like “no! Tell me about your day! About everything that happened! Ask me questions!” And he’s not. But I feel like I can’t appreciate it as much now as I should. So that’s guilt.

Like when they say: you only have 350 Saturdays until your kids are 18. I get like anxiety when I read that because sometimes we don’t live our Saturdays to the fullest. Sometimes we’re just sitting around for half the day and I haven’t gone to, like, the farm with my kids and whatever. I’m just like let’s go play in the backyard for a little bit. You read those Summer lists of like things you should be doing with your kids: 25 things to do with your kids in the Summer. I’m like I think I’ve done maybe, like, 4 of them by the end of the Summer.

18. Um, well let’s see. Now that my daughter is 6 it has changed a little because obviously the emotional lability of a 2 year old is so intense that I think as a mom you kind of just have to be sarcastic and laugh at their tantrums because they are so ridiculous. But then as your kid grows, and their conflicts with peers, and feeling left out in social circumstances and stuff become a real feeling that you can empathize with or maybe you have yourself, that becomes part of your, like, general thought process. I’ve tried to stay calm in that. And I get really obnoxious around 7:30 when bedtime starts to approach because there’s usually a point in the day when I’ve just had enough and my fuse is short. I’ve actually started telling my daughter like, you know how you get irritated when you’re over-tired, Mommy is over-tired. Just so that it’s like a little warning like I might yell at you. You’ve caught me during summer camp so these last 2 days have been very relaxing; I have a lot of free time.

Bedtime is also when they come out with all sorts of things and it’s like now you’re telling me this? And sometimes it’s like, to stall bedtime, but sometimes it’s real emotional stuff. Like the doorknob questions to your therapist. And it’s hard when routines shift for everybody. I do 90% of bedtimes by myself because my husband gets home at 9 o’clock or later most nights so we’re just kind of in our routine and yes I’m irritable but I just know how things need to work. So when he does randomly get home early and happens to be there: I feel guilty because Iam simultaneously so happy that she’s going to get to see him because sometimes it can be days during the week when she doesn’t, and I’m also irritated because bedtime is totally messed with. And the routine is off and she’s going to bed late and she’s cranky the next day. It’s hard.​

19. Probably from exhaustion to frustration and then, you know, when I’m with my kids just pure joy. Even when they’re getting on my nerves sometimes I just look at them and I’m grateful. I think that I go through extremes almost every day. It starts with exhaustion and it ends with exhaustion and everything else runs between.

20. I am in such a good place right now that most days I feel happy, fulfilled and full of love. However, I am also a worrier by nature— I think it’s in my genes— so there are definitely times where I am also feeling worried, stressed and anxious.

21. I feel mostly pretty happy. I mean that’s me anyway, like I ride pretty high? But tired. Occasionally it’s like the tired that’s like— I feel like I can say this because I have been hit by car— where it’s like UGH I just feel dead; how am I going to get through this next hour? And yeah. I thought I would be, like, annoyed at him but it’s not. It’s interesting. It’s like extreme love and elation and like extreme tiredness where I could just nap for days. And sometimes, I’ve had in the past few weeks a little bit of that, like, anger towards my husband but not really because it’s not his fault; but I’m just like oh it must be nice to be able to go to work— to be able to separate and not worry for a second.

22. I think I’m pretty steady. I don’t think I’m particularly exuberant and I don’t think I’m particularly depressed. I’m very happy. I feel happy.

23. De la tranquilidad a la incertidombre.

24. I feel so many. I think I cry so much more easily about things I wouldn’t have cried about before. But a lot of times like happy tears but just generally emotional. I often feel really proud of my kids and all the things they’re doing. I get frustrated. That’s probably a top word— just general frustration. I have a lot more anxiety every day. I worry a lot more. I think that’s it. I mean overall I would say I’m really happier but in terms of— but there’s so many highs and lows.

25. Being on leave I would say definitely— right now it’s tough too because I’m still postpartum— I would say guilt is like an overwhelming one: just trying to make sure that my older daugther knows that I don’t love her any less. My husband does the drop off at school during the day in the mornings and there are times I’m still in bed because I’ve done like a 3 AM feeding or I’m currently feeding the baby and it just feels— I don’t want her to feel like the goodbye in the morning is any less— or I don’t want her to feel like I’m trying to push her out of the house or I don’t want her to feel dismissed in any way. And then I would say guilt, a little bit of loneliness now that my husband is back at work. I almost don’t like hearing how his day is because he gets to tell me all the people he spoke with, like all the things that he did, and he’s like what did you do today? This. This is what I did today. I tried to get to the grocery store but she was screaming so much I knew I wouldn’t be able to go shopping and, I, yeah brushed my teeth at 11 and I’m going to take a shower at 10 o’clock tonight hopefully when she’s sleeping. So a little bit of lonely. But then also. Yeah it’s just crazy because I’m so happy when my daughter gets home. I do feel like it’s a little bit of a roller-coaster right now. Like I’m happy for 5 minutes and then she starts behaving like a 2 and a half year old and I’m like go back to school. I was great, you were being so good for 10 minutes and now I want to kill all of us. I want to burn this house down. Yeah it’s a rainbow of emotions. But yeah I’d say overwhelming is like guilt but also I’m grateful. Just crazy, apparently. Just crazy.

When my mom is like, “is the baby sleeping better?” I’m like she’s an infant: she’s the dictator of the house I don’t know— no she’s not sleeping— she went 4 hours last night instead of 2 and a half. Great. I’m not putting any money on that. We’re all sleeping like shit. I want to murder everyone. Stop calling me. “Well you have to get her on a schedule.” Kill yourself. Okay, she’s seven weeks old she doesn’t have a schedule.

26. Let’s see. I think I go anywhere from like at my wit’s end to I don’t know how to describe it. Just like – to like literally heart bursting with love. Which I don’t actually think are opposites.

​27. Thinking back: a huge shift in emotions. Up and down and up and down and sideways. You know from extreme happiness to extreme concern and worry and feeling inadequate and feeling concern. Huge concern. Not knowing how to calm a baby down or a son down. Huge concern. I guess I haven’t changed all that much. Another thing is your hormones are going crazy because after you give birth your hormones are all mixed up and that really does complicate things and so on.

That’s it for today.

Coming up: What is the most rewarding thing about being a mother?

Mom Talk – Part 7

My children and dogs will not leave me alone so there is no audio. Maybe I can find time later so you can listen while you sew face masks, supervise homework, cry silently in your room, walk around the block, drink a glass of wine, lift weights.

Question: How has motherhood changed you?

I always felt that I was put on this Earth to be a mother. Now I am a mother but I couldn’t have known how I would be a mother; and I’m not always the mother I want to be. Things have changed drastically since I began writing these words several months ago. I am certainly not the quarantine mother I’d like to be. I’d love to be patient, forgiving, easy-going, indulgent. I’d love to come up with engaging crafts that entertain 4 age groups and be an effective teacher and be generous with affection. I’d love to get that balance of doing the things that are expected and required so my kids don’t fall behind in school and so that they continue to learn and use their brains for academic work and of doing the things that are a little rebellious so that my kids have special adventures and create once in a lifetime memories that will stick with them forever. I’m afraid the memories they’ll have are of an angry mother screaming that they can’t have seconds of waffles. And yes I should give myself a break and not put so much pressure on myself and no I don’t think that’s really all they’ll remember. But I’ll tell you what being a mother didn’t change about me— my desire to do things 100% perfectly with no mistakes the first time.

Motherhood didn’t change certain fundamental parts of me— I’m a little weird. Now I’m a weird mother. I’m pretty creative and so I channel that into birthday parties. I’ve always tried to use humor to manage the ups and downs of daily life and kids create thousands of ups and downs and so I’m constantly trying to be funny. But not always successfully. Which goes back to the weird thing.

So how did motherhood change me? Well, in fulfilling this ultimate overarching purpose, it inevitably altered significant parts of me that made me, me: the way I dress (more yoga pants) the way I feel about myself and my body (like I’m an elephant stuffed into yoga pants), the kinds of food I eat (more muffins, more coffee, more bagels) and the amount of time I am able to spend writing or even just self-reflecting (still lots of time to self-reflect – maybe more – like when I’m driving around with a sleeping child or shuttling someone somewhere in rush hour or sitting in the pick up line at 2:30 for a 3:15 dismissal and I’m still the 10th car in line. But less time to write unless I’m neglecting a thousand other things.)

I feel like if I had to really define the big change it is that my perspective has changed. I’ve been a girl and a teenager and a young adult and a student and an intern and a friend and a sister and a daughter and a wife. And now I’m a mother. And then becoming a mother for the second time changed me. And again the third time. And again the fourth time. Each time I brought a baby into this world it changed me. I assume I’ll keep changing as the stages of motherhood move along. I’ll never be who I was before. Now that I see life as a mother I can’t unsee it. It sort of changes everything.

Every mom I spoke to acknowledged that motherhood has changed them in big ways. In some ways the moms agree: there’s a general consensus that becoming a mother makes you more empathetic, tolerant, forgiving, and understanding of fellow moms and humans in general. Motherhood makes moms self-reflective and gives them a sense of personal growth. Some moms feel their standards have decreased (personally, now that we’re all in isolation, my standards have disappeared entirely). Many moms feel like they are so much less focused on “trivial bullshit.”

But this question also highlights some of the ways in which moms are different. And they’re different because women are different and all women can become moms and most do. We start off as different human beings with different lives and different personalities and different perspectives. Some were older mothers, some younger. Some work, some don’t. Some have siblings, some don’t. Some have lost a parent, some haven’t. Some come from divorced parents, some don’t. Some were born in this country, some weren’t. Some speak English as a first language, some don’t. So motherhood changes women in different ways. Some moms feel less self-centered and some feel more. Some moms feel more patient and some feel less. Some moms feel more of a balance in terms of work and family and some moms feel like having kids altered— and lessened— their career motivation entirely.

Let’s get into it.

The answers:

1. I’m less focused on myself I guess. Pretty lame.

2. It made me look at my own childhood and realize that, um, in a way, I know I started out by saying that motherhood is fucking hard but in a way motherhood and protecting your child is easy. It just comes naturally and it makes me look at my own childhood and it actually might make me more resentful toward my own mother because of that. Because it’s— it’s— it’s just easy to protect. Why wouldn’t I?

3. Other than my body? More tired. I feel like I have so much less time to do the things that I really want to do. And I feel constantly pulled in a direction that is the selfless direction and I want to be selfish and I’m like, no I can’t justify getting a massage at 9:30 on a Friday morning or God forbid a Saturday. And I think men aren’t like that. My husband has no problem going to the gym on a Saturday morning and I commend him for that. I would feel guilty. And there’s nothing wrong with it, that’s the thing. I just feel guilty. I feel like I shouldn’t be doing those things when it’s my time with the kids. So, you know, there’s that. How has it changed me? It’s made me incredibly more patient because when your first kid is not well you just develop a level of appreciation and patience for these kids that I definitely wouldn’t have had otherwise. Even though he’s a challenge – like a lot of kids are – I’m a lot more patient with him.

4. As a spouse, I became more proscriptive. I became more directive and more in charge, whereas we were pretty good partners before-hand. Like, whoever cooked the other would clean; we really made an attempt to do the whole thing and we both had incomes and we both— it wasn’t perfect— but then it became much less even once the kids came. Much less even when they were babies. Sure I was nursing but, even so, in every which way, and it’s sort of still even though the kids are bigger.

5. I think it’s made me a lot more empathetic to others like strangers, friends, everyone, mostly moms I would say just given the context and situations you see. Before I was a mom I would snark at moms on the airplane that had crying kids like— control your kid— and then I’m a mom and I think that was the most rude thing I could have ever done. It’s little things like that. It’s big things like, once you go through things that are hard for you as a mom, when you realize someone else probably went through it too, there’s just that level of understanding. So I would definitely say empathy and a level of maturity in terms of no judgments and no gossiping— things that still take place all the time in mom groups and my friends and me and whatever. But I’ve noticed myself really trying to take a step back from that kind of stuff because it shouldn’t— we’re moms— we’re responsible for other little people why are we talking to other moms that are going through the same thing? It’s that level of empathy and— I don’t want to say maturity because I dont think I’m mature— but understanding maybe.

6. I was always very afraid of failure I was not a big risk taker and it isolated me from people. I think it isolated me from growing as a person. When I had kids it forced me to realize that I really needed to grow in order to be a good mother to my kids so I had to put all that away and I had to get rid of the fear of failure and get rid of the fear of people knowing too much about me or getting too deeply imbedded in my life in order to be a good mother. I mean my mom and I have never been this close and we are this close now because she is a primary caretaker of my children. So they really forced me to just bear it all.

7. My mom will tell me that I can no longer sit still; I think that’s probably fair. I was a pretty relaxed individual for my life. When I first started work I remember having my cup of tea in peace, watching the news, reading the paper, making my way in just kind of going with the flow. I was never a big planner. I was always pretty relaxed, happy to go with the flow, happy to be spontaneous. And I’m not like that at all. And I actually can’t visualize what it’s like to be that kind of a working mother. I’m sure there’s a way; I just haven’t discovered it. I feel like I’m constantly on the move and there’s always a hundred things going through my mind— things I have to do— especially during the school year. Did I send in the 25 cents for the lemonade sale? Or, like, was I supposed to bake cupcakes? Or did I get that document out at work? And so I feel like there’s always— or like little things— do their clothes fit? Do they know how to ride a bike yet? Did I miss that boat? I’ve missed so many boats.

Like that day of the roller skating party I was like I’m just gonna go ahead and say my kids have never been roller skating— we definitely missed that boat. It didn’t come up on my top 10 list of things to do on a Saturday. They’re gonna be holding on to the wall.

8. First thing came into my mind is I used to have really bad temper from time to time, literally you can’t even control, bad anger management. My husband knows that I don’t really show that to anyone else but people who are really close with me know that, which is a bad thing for my husband. But I don’t know if it could be also my husband help me change that it’s just hurting people it’s not helpful. But having kids also help me. Even though I have moments from time to time— feeling ahhhhh! how do I handle this? How do I do this? But then the anger seems to go away. I’m not saying it never comes back but it just change me. I don’t know why. It’s the love, it’s the care, I don’t know why. And then it change me also that I want to be a better person but the kids help me realize I really need to focus on myself instead of focusing on them. Of course I need to spend quality time with them but I need to have something keeping me busy, have a career, whatever it is— have a passion— so that they can see, they can learn from me to find their own passion. I think that’s important. Like I said it took me 37 years to find my passion, who knows how long it will take them but I’ll just keep encouraging them. If I can do that maybe they can too.

9. I’ve become more confident. I think you become more confident as a woman. You’re not as scared— even in my work life— if I can get the mom life it gives me confidence that extends to my work life, my personal life.

10. You know, I don’t sweat the small stuff anymore. I work at a job where there’s a lot of petty things that happen, like all fields, and when I was pre-child I used to find myself getting upset with office politics, with things that were probably— now I would consider to be minutiae. And it shrinks your perception of things to worry about. You have to do a lot of growing up very quickly when you become a mother. You realize the difference between a real problem and what is pretty much an imaginary problem and you learn to let the little things go and don’t sweat the small stuff. And I think that’s so important because you have to hold on to your sanity. And there’s plenty of things that come up in life, especially with a child, that are very important and that you need to be alert and to be aware and you want to keep your optimal self for your child and you want to set an example and you don’t want to worry about little things. Because that’s just minutiae.

I think it’s important to expend your energy— fight battles that are worth fighting— and I try to talk to my son about that too. Because otherwise it becomes death by a thousand cuts and that’s silly. So you can’t worry about little things. And I think that you do learn to let a lot of things go when you have a child. I think it makes you more tolerant. I see a lot of the young people I work with now who don’t have kids and aren’t married. They sweat things that I don’t sweat. That’s why I think that’s the difference, one of the differences between being a mom and not. And it’s also nice, too, because it pulls you out of a lot of petty worlds. Even with friends there’s a lot of things that could happen that you could misinterpret or that you can be a lot more sensitive to and take as little slights and you sort of pull back from that and say, you know, let’s not get crazy about little things.

So from the work arena and from the friend arena I think you learn to just roll with things better. And you kind of become a more tolerant person, and a more accepting person, and more patient. I think patience is important. People are too quick to get impatient and I think it has to be the last— you know— I think you have to go through a series of things before you lose your patience. I think you have to hold on to your patience and give the benefit of the doubt and I find myself giving the benefit of the doubt much more than I used to. Much more forgiving. More tolerant.

11. That’s a good question. I was very maternal, I think, to start with. I’ve always loved kids like younger cousins, nephews and nieces. And not very late, but I did have my kids a little later. But I just felt, you know, joy and everything. But I don’t think the feeling of content came in before I became a mother. Like I feel very content now that I have everything, you know, and everything can go wrong with me but I have my two girls and that’s all I need.

12. Mom: Totally. I gave up my career. I just changed. I don’t know if that other woman would even recognize— if the psychologist would even— Every once in awhile she pokes her head out, you know. So totally. It totally changed me. There had to be a core that hasn’t changed, but on the outside I feel it’s different. My life just completely changed.

Daughter: I think toward the end of pregnancy and early, early infancy— I don’t know how to explain this— I felt like a proximity to life and deathness that I’ve never felt before? Like when I was getting ready to have the baby I was working with a doctor and a doula and they were telling me the baby was going to be really big and I started to look up all the things that can go wrong and I would say to the doctor and the doula, “I’m gonna be okay, right? And the baby’s gonna be okay?” And the answer was, “we don’t know. Probably.” And I realized I’d never been so close to all this real, real stuff. That I’d lived mostly in my head for a long time. Then all of a sudden I was like: you’re body’s gonna do something that’s probably miraculous? Or maybe, maybe fatal. And somehow I always thought I was immune to most of those kinds of problems. That most of my problems would be of my own making or in my own head or having to do with social interactions not like— oh you can just try to push a human out of you and you could die— Or to be so sleep-deprived that you feel like you’re living in a dream for the first month. That’s all weird.

And I think that— I don’t know. I’ve just been thinking about this recently that most of my life I only thought about my future in terms of things I could do by myself. I thought about jobs and apartments and friends. I assumed I would get married and I thought I would have kids but I didn’t picture myself in those worlds because I thought, well I can’t really picture that because those are all other people, like who would they be? So I’m not gonna fantasize about a life I can’t control. I can control that I go to school, what I study and then what I become. And so what’s changed is I’m sort of like living— I’ve gone outside the dream blueprint I had. It was like, get married: TBD. Have a baby: fill in the blank. This is all new stuff. I never thought I’d want to read this much about child-rearing and now I read it constantly. I just realize this picture I had of myself was very incomplete. There are parts of myself— things that are vaguely recognizable: my desire to do research, for example, that are the same. But these whole, like, wings of the building of my soul that were just, like, not open. And I had never even thought to go in.

13. I think I’ve been proud that I’ve been able to— I’m a workaholic. I’ve been proud that I’ve been able to designate, like— this is time where I’m not even going to interact with work and that’s really hard for me to do. It’s just not intuitive. I think also it’s forced me to really think through what things are truly consequential and important. He had like two sodas and I said to my husband, “we have to talk about this: what’s going to be our policy on sugary beverages?” And he’s like, “do we really? This is a being who, in a decade, has survived more than most people will experience in a lifetime. Does it really matter if he has two sodas this weekend?” And my very type A personality is like yes! But then I’m like no, you’re right, it doesn’t. It absolutely doesn’t. So I think it’s made me more balanced.

14. I definitely think it makes you tougher; it’s not all about you anymore that’s for sure. I think in a lot of ways, while I did say patience can be more of a challenge on some days, I think overall I’m a more patient person. I also think it makes me reflect on myself a little bit more because before I was like— who cares? You know? But if I find myself being snappy with them or getting angry over something stupid, I really try and think about why I’m reacting that way if that makes sense. So I think it’s changed me in the sense that I try and think about why I react in certain ways that I do and I am also very conscious of the fact that they are learning so much right now at this stage that I have to try and put my best self forward so that they can learn from that. But at the same time I think it’s also okay for them to see weakness and not everything is okay. They’ve seen me cry. They’ve seen me get upset. That kind of stuff.

15. I think it’s made me warmer and fuzzier. This is sort of a silly example but I always speak to children like they’re adults like, “hi, how are you, nice to see you!” and I babysat as a kid and the kids loved me but I don’t know— kids don’t gravitate towards me. My husband is a child magnet and his dad too. They walk by him and he makes a silly noise and all of a sudden they’re, like, climbing on him. I want to be warm with kids, I’ve always liked kids but they’re like, “oh, whatever lady” and I think it’s because my parents spoke to us like we were intelligent beings, which I appreciate as an adult because I feel like they never sort of— t’s not that they were inappropriate about what they talked to us about— but they treated us with the same amount of intellectual capacity as they would speak to another adult. My mom used big words with us and I didn’t know what they meant most of the time and when she described them with another word it was another word I didn’t know. So I feel like that’s part of where it came from. We never got the gushy-wushy roll on the floor type. And I’m not that kind of parent. But now I feel like because I have children I do a better job speaking to children at their level. Not talking down to them.

I also think that warmer and fuzzier— I don’t know— I feel like I’m sweeter than I was before. What else how has it changed me?

I feel like as a parent— and this is one of those penetrating glimpses into the obvious— but because your priorities change so much and the kids are, like, your family and raising them are just the most important thing, I think that my sense of security and stress about things that don’t matter— most things just sort of roll off my back. I’m like, we’re going to figure it out; it’s fine. This is not the most important thing in the world. I’m less, I don’t know, I guess I feel stronger, actually, maybe that’s the word. It’s not that I felt insecure before I just feel stronger now. I feel like I have resolve and ability to take care of anything, which I might have had to some degree before but it’s very clear to me what my priorities are and they will be taken care of and that’s it.

I was going to say something else. I don’t know. I forget.

16. I think my standards, like, the way I’m willing to go out in public has decreased a lot. I was always manicured and hair done and nice outfits and now I’m like dirty t-shirt, old shorts, flip flops, no mani. I think you just— your kids’ happiness makes up for all of that. You just do stuff for your kids. You just live for them and these little moments. Like when I pick them up from camp. Like my older daughter? She loves my husband. When Daddy is around Mommy is like garbage. But when I pick her up she lights up and she’s like, Mommy! She said to me yesterday, “I love Daddy.” And I’m like, “thanks, really?” And she’s like “I do; I love him.” And I’m like, “you don’t love me a little?” She’s like, “no I do.” She struggles with like, she’s like, “I love you both!” And I’m like, “That’s okay! You’re going to love us both for different reasons. Maybe you’re going to love Daddy because he’s going to do the fun stuff with you and you’re going to come to me when you’re older. You’re just going to use us for different— what you need us for.”

So what about me has changed? So my standards of how I’m willing to go out in public. I don’t care about trivial things as much like, if my nails aren’t done. I don’t care. I’d rather go and do my nails at a different time maybe when they’re at school and occupied and not take family time to do that. I just want to be around them more.

17. Well, my patience has grown exponentially because I’m not a patient person at all. And I think I used to be a very competitive person, I mean, playing college soccer. Not with my friends. But like even just playing board games. Like I don’t want to do better than my friends in life but I’ve just had to really learn that I don’t want to be competitive with my children and I see people do it so I just like— I can’t be just halfway competitive so I literally have no competition left inside me at all. One of my biggest traits was competitive and I’ve literally had to just shut it down because I don’t want to compare my kids, I don’t want to be competitive with my kids, I don’t want them to be competitive with each other. And I just don’t want to feel badly. There’s always going to be somebody better than my kids. And it’s one thing when people were better than me because I could either work to be better or— But I can’t ever make them do anything they don’t want to do to be better than anyone else so I just want them to be happy. And I think the only way to do that is the quash the competitiveness.

I feel like being the first to read, the first to walk, the first to crawl. My first was a late crawler. Early walker, late crawler. Early talker. As compared to other people’s kids. I just remember a friend— she was so upset that her kid was a late talker and my son was such an early talker and it really got to her. She was also a college athlete and very competitive and it was like: this is bad. They’re all going to talk and you’re not going to know in three years who talked first who walked first who read first. It doesn’t mean anything but it really got to her. And I remember thinking to myself I just don’t want that situation about anything. This is a very competitive town; there are going to be a lot of kids that do a lot of things better than mine and I don’t want to compare. It’s not even competitive it’s more comparing. Where I felt like I would compare myself to my peers: how I’m doing in life compared to them career-wise and everything and with them I’m like nope. My older son still can’t read as well as he should. He probably should be reading by now but I’m like, he’ll get there. And in a year we won’t even know. It’s not like he’s a bad reader he’s just the kind of kid that if he can’t do something right away he just wants to move on so I know that once he gets it he’ll be fine; he loves to read.

18. I think I’ve become more secure with myself? I used to do a lot more prep before I would go out and see people; I had a lot more time to myself so I had a lot more time to ruminate about how I wanted to be perceived in the world. And once you have kids you just have to get used to being embarrassed pretty frequently and you also don’t want them to pick up on any insecurities that you have. So I’ve tried to kind of force myself to be okay in my own skin as much as I can, especially having a girl. And I do more. I force myself to do more activities than I used to. Whereas I could have spent a whole weekend just reading books, watching TV, lounging with my husband in our pajamas and now that never happens; and it’s not just because we have to go do stuff it’s because I feel like a greater responsibility to be out there in the world.

19. I’ve become more patient and I changed most probably in my career. I was very focused on my career prior to having children. It was about being as successful as I could possibly be. Moving up the corporate ladder. You know I switched careers: I wanted to be a dancer and my dad did not want me to do that. So I was enrolled in a college but I was dancing at night and auditioning and not focused on college at all. It wasn’t until he passed away that I started to focus more in school. And I have this goal in my head: every year I’m going to make $25,000 more than I did the year before and you know, I’m moving I’m shaking. All of that completely changed when I had my daughter. It just became: I want to get home, what time can I get home? The focus became getting her ready for interviews for schools and for someone who used to stay late at work every day, I became a person who wanted to leave as early as possible every day and it really just changed focus for me. And I’m not quite sure yet how I feel about that— if I want to get back into that at some point— sometimes I miss it because now I’m at a job that just gives me a lot of flexibility and I feel like I need that with my two. But I guess at some point I would like to go back to that but I’m not quite ready for that. Maybe when my son is in Kindergarten.

20. I don’t think I truly appreciated how much my kids would look up to me and model their behavior after my own, so being a mother has made me more aware of my own actions and forced me to act in ways that I want my kids to act. I want my kids to feel confident, so I try to exude confidence when I am with them. I want my kids to take pride in their accomplishments, so I take pride in my own accomplishments when talking to them. I want my kids to be thoughtful and caring, so I am thoughtful and caring with them and with others. I want my kids to feel unconditional love, so I make sure to show them unconditional love every single day.

21. I feel like I’m more direct. I just don’t have time to B.S. or sugar-coat anymore especially having my own business. It’s like: I have 5 minutes so if you need to use them, use them wisely. In a loving way but also let’s be direct. And I also think a lot of the— I had a lot of fear when I was pregnant about: who will I be? How is this going to change me? How will I be a business owner? How will I still live my life? Because I think some of my friends and I who hadn’t had kids we would almost be like— someone would have a baby and like— oh there goes that person; it’s all about their baby now. Forget it, their life is totally different. Which it is. But I feel like all that fear was like— like I’m the same. It didn’t matter. But with that, it’s like, more confidence. Like I’m still me and I can do whatever I want. So yeah. I don’t know, I just think that all that worrying about perception and how will it look and what will people think of me— because I had heard that other studio owners in the area— a couple— were like “oh, well she is always at her studio; that’s gonna change.”

I feel like this is kind of a tangent but I feel I’ve met two kinds of moms: there are the moms like yourself and like my good friends who are like, I’ve been there, I remember, I’ve been in your shoes and I have compassion for what you’re going through; and then there’s moms, it’s usually people whose kids are older, but not always, who are like, well I felt that way too but let me tell you— don’t do it that way, you’re just worrying but you need to. It’s like that mean mommy thing which I haven’t interacted with much but I did get a little bit of that from this competitive place of well, now you’re going to get how hard it is and almost, yeah, I had to go through it and so do you. Anyway, this is all just to say I feel like, yeah it’s hard but it doesn’t have to be any specific way. Anyway that was not a clear answer, but yeah.

23. Mi visión de la vida.

24. I think I’m more forgiving and understanding of other people’s experiences. I don’t know if that’s an age thing too, though. But I just care so much less about other stuff. And I think that’s why I’m not interested in going back to work is because someone will talk about deadlines and use like work jargon that I never liked when I did work like hit the ground running and get back to me ASAP and like now when people talk about that I’m like oh my God. If you told me to do these things because we have a deadline and whatever it is I’d be like, alright, well I just don’t care. I think I’m just so much more relaxed about— and I don’t think a lot of people will tell you I’m that relaxed— but like I just don’t care about a lot of things that I used to think I would care about and that were important to me. I like things to be neat, which I said before, because that to me is like order. It’s not like perfect; it doesn’t have to be in it’s spot and whatever but it makes me feel unsettled when it looks like a bomb fell. But other than that— And I like to have the loose plan of what we’re going to do each day so that I know and so that we can actually do those things; because if you don’t then you’re never going to do anything. But in terms of— I just think I’m so much more relaxed. And again maybe this is an age and experience thing but, like, I’m realizing that so much isn’t about me in terms of— like if I was in college or high school and a friend and I had a falling out or someone felt distant I’d be like, what did I do? Why are you mad at me? How do I fix this? Let’s address it immediately and think it was about me personally. And like the older I get— and I think it’s some combination of having less time to think about— that I’m realizing that a lot of it is about that other person and what they’re going through and so here’s how I can actually support them versus like jump to any conclusions. And I think that goes along again with being patient and giving people a lot more grace. But I can’t take out being a mom from that.

I think I’m less judgmental. I don’t even think I realized I was being so judgmental before. That’s really the short of it. And perhaps more self-aware or I think I just care less about what other people are doing. I feel like it took all the things I liked about myself and made it easier for me to step back and work on them somehow. Not work on them but point out: this is working; this isn’t. You have to make a quick decision like, is this how I’m going to be or not? Am I going to be someone who yells? Am I going to be someone who’s miserable because it didn’t work out the way you wanted it to? So I think motherhood has just made me feel more relaxed because I recognize that that works for me way better. We’ll get there and we can do it.

25. It’s both good and bad. Well I feel guilty about it. I don’t care less about my job. I enjoy going to work every day but before, when it was just my husband and I, I would text him— ’cause it’s an hour door to door, my commute. I take the train— he wouldn’t mind either because— not that we were both single, we were married, but we were single entities— I would text him and be like I’m gonna work late; I just wanna get this done. I’ll be home 6:30/7 instead of 5/5:30 and it wouldn’t make a difference. But I always felt like I needed to get the work done. I’d get very stressed out if I didn’t complete my work checklist or the need to impress— oh, she accomplished all of this today. Wow. and now I’m like, no it’s 4:30 I have to get home because I have to pick up my kids and fuck all of you. And that was really freeing for me, too, because it was like I know this can wait until tomorrow. And I think, not that I didn’t put my husband first or I’ve never put my friends first, but I’m really aggressively putting my daughter first. No, I need to pick her up. I want to spend time with her. This is the only time I get. I don’t care if it’s a client call at 4:30: you know I leave at 4:30. Goodbye. I’m not picking up. And that has surprised me a little bit but I’m happy that now I recognize that my work is not everything; it’s not a big deal. It’s just— I feel like I’m not putting this well— but that’s definitely how I’ve changed. I obviously want people at my work to think that I’m doing a good job; I want to keep my job. But like I really don’t care what you think of me. Because there’s always office gossip: so and so didn’t get here until this time and they left at this and yeah, you’re going to gossip about me because yeah, I didn’t get in until late today because my toddler threw a tantrum because she didn’t want to wear that one pair of socks but she picked an identical pair that needed to be put on and I’m leaving at 4:30 because her day care closes soon and I got my work done today. That’s all that matters. I want my girls to be happy. I feel less pressure to impress others. I want them to be impressed.

​26. I think it’s changed me at work. I think I think about situations and the kids that I work with differently.

​27. I shouldn’t have to think so much. It changed me because it opened up a whole new chapter in my life. It changed the important relationships in my life and how I could relate to people that was different in any other way I could relate to people.

Has motherhood changed you? Tell me about it in the comments!

Coming up: Mom Talk – Part 8 – On a typical day what is the range of emotions you feel?

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Mom Talk – Part 6

Audio version. Can you hear my Manischewitz?

Question: How has being a mother changed your relationship with your spouse?

My husband and I were a great childless couple. We got each other. We loved each other. We didn’t fight. We never fought. There was just nothing to argue about. Having kids made all the love feelings stronger in a lot of ways— seeing this child, these children, that we created. Mentally, I felt super close to him. We still didn’t have many reasons to argue because we were very much on the same page about things; if one of us felt strongly about something about the kids it was usually me and he was pretty much always ready to back me up. That being said, and I say this understanding that my parents will read this, the physical closeness basically disappeared. Being climbed all over all day by these tiny people made me feel incredibly like— please don’t touch me— in fact don’t come anywhere near me— basically don’t bother looking at me. Now that our oldest is almost 8 and our youngest is almost 3 I finally, finally feel like I’m okay if we maybe hold hands. Sometimes.

Just to illustrate I want you to see some photos from before kids:

kissy faces

looking back with a smile

even a slight smile when caught off guard

Look what happened almost immediately after our first was born:

And these days?

• 

• 

• 

And that’s if I’m not straight up:

ptfo

BUT as with everything related to motherhood so far it’s complicated:

We like each other!

We have fun!

We haven’t forgotten how to smile!

And sometimes I even attempt something that isn’t contempt when he takes pictures of me…

Moms notice the positive impact of children on their relationships: they appreciate their spouses; they value them; they love seeing them in a new role; their relationship is deeper; they communicate more. I full on agree with these. Moms notice the negative impact of children on their relationships too: more criticism; things are less equal; they have less alone time; they only talk about their kids; they never have sex; it’s less fun; it’s more effort. I full on agree with these too. Like everything in life and motherhood, it’s complicated.

The answers:

1. Um, we definitely spend less alone time together. And most of the conversation revolves around our child.

2. In some ways its definitely deeper and it’s better but it isn’t as much fun and I know that’s fairly obvious. A childless person could probably tell you that a child makes your relationship less fun but— it definitely does. It’s less sparkly.

3. More patient. More compromise. More effort to give him the attention and each other the attention that we need. And more accepting.

4. Honestly, it’s hard to sort of remember. I do remember the first time I went on a business trip when my oldest was about 6 months old. I went back to work when she was 4 months old and I was freaking out. I pumped and everything was ready and of course she was still waking up in the middle of the night because, as you recall, she didn’t have a chance— from one story ago— she had no chance. I went on this business trip and I think it was all of three days and I got back and he was so much more competent. Like, she survived and I was calling and he was so much more competent and my life got better because he was so much more comfortable and I was like: God I should have gone on that business trip a long time ago.

5. It’s good. I think. I really like my husband. I would say, as probably every couple does, you go into it not really knowing what to expect, like, none of our friends had kids, we were pretty young, we did it because I wanted it— I was ready. I would say it surprised both of us in how much we love it. Because again, neither of us were, like, kid people. So I think it’s been really good. I just love watching him with the kids; he’s just so devoted. I mean— on Saturdays and Sundays. When he’s not working. But like, I think I always— we always have conversations— well, not always, but sometimes I’ll say it’s so fascinating to me on a weekend if I’m going away to see a friend or whatever he is just looking forward to that weekend for weeks and weeks because he just wants his time with the kids. So he’s the dad and he’s gonna be the one that’s for them if they need anything and all that kind of stuff. For me, if he’s going away for the weekend, I want to get a babysitter so I can go out one night or whatever— it doesn’t really change or affect my life in any way but he just loves it so much. So I would say it’s really good. And I think part of it is, because he’s not there during the week, he’s just so ultra-supportive of anything I need as a mom. He’s so outward with saying, like, “being a mom must be the hardest thing ever,” you know, “being you must be really hard; I don’t know how you do it.” And he acknowledges it all the time and I think that’s so nice that he doesn’t take anything for granted and just is very recognizing of the situation that our family is in. But really our family is just the light of his life and it’s really cute to see. So I would say it’s good. And we’re both very committed still to each other and making sure we do date nights all the time or go away for the weekend or that kind of thing. We’re on the same page about it. So I’d say it’s really good. It’s just been really positive. You know we thought it was great before kids and then you have kids and you just don’t realize how great it can be.

Let me back track for a minute. Just to clarify. It’s not like, you know, I don’t want to give people this impression, if they’re reading it, that he’s like the ultimate stay-at-home dad who is so involved— like—no. He’s not around very much at all. But I think that the way that it worked for us is— because he’s not around, and because he’s recognizing, and also willing to take a new job so that he can be around more or is always like, “get more childcare if you need more childcare; do this for yourself; do that” just to show that being a mom is really hard. But I don’t want people to think that it’s like this perfect world. He feels bad because he’s not around during the week and— whatever— but I do think it also brings out the best in his personality that, at heart, he really cares; he just wants us all to be happy so that he’ll do whatever and the minute if I said anything about “I’m not happy” or “you should leave your job” he would do it. But it’s not— I wouldn’t want people to think, oh my God her husband is the most perfect person and always around. I mean— of course. I hate when people paint a picture like everything is so perfect and blah blah blah. It’s not. But it’s a situation that works for us. There’s no resentment. There’s no— of course he doesn’t do his share but I don’t need him to do his share. Honestly I’d rather do it— I don’t need him to try to do drop off one day, like, I don’t need him to do that. I’m fine. It wouldn’t go well anyway.

6. I think when you’re a couple with someone lack of compromise isn’t that— or— compromise isn’t as hard when it’s just between two people I think. My husband and I were raised pretty differently I would say— not in a bad way— but he’s a child of divorced parents. There’s not a lot of family activity there on his mom’s side and I was always in a room with like 30 cousins at any given time. I think that now the decisions that we make together are more about what we want for our kids and not necessarily what I would care about for myself. So I’ll give you an example. This is pretty personal: my husband is type A 100%. There’s this personality test you can take it’s called the DISC and basically there’s 4 components D-I-S-C and the Ds are supposed to be— D is for dominant and you’re type A, relentless people and he is basically the highest D that there is in the scale. And as a result of that these people tend to be very abrasive. They have no room for compromise and it’s like— this is the way it is and I don’t care what you think kind of thing. And when we were together I was like alright, I don’t care. But now I find well, okay, this is what you think and I know that you feel this way but I feel differently. And my conviction to how this is going to affect our kids— now I’m forced to reckon with it. Now we really have to deal with it. And I think this was more of a challenge earlier on when we first starting to be parents. It was harder because before it was like whatever : laissez faire, let’s do whatever, I don’t care. And now I’m a little bit more, like, committed to how my kids are going to end up. So we got into a little bit of butting heads— clashing on things— and it’s forced us to be better communicators. And it was a learning process. We had some times where I was like I can’t. I’m outta here. This is not good for the kids. I don’t want this. But actually because we are totally committed to being— again he’s a child of divorced parents— we both knew early on this is it: we are not getting a divorce. I do not care what happens we are sticking it out, and because of that commitment we have stuck out these very, very trying times that we’ve had where we couldn’t compromise and we didn’t know how to communicate. It’s improved; we communicate better now. It’s not perfect; we still argue, but it’s in the right direction. You have to. Otherwise if you know you can get out of it there’s nothing making you try harder. I don’t know.

7. What relationship? No. I mean I think it’s amazing because we’re very much a team now and I think it’s very much cliche. Obviously our conversations are no longer about the restaurants we want to try or the places we want to go to travel. If we’re talking about travel we’re talking about logistically what makes sense for the kids. We are always talking about the kids. I value him a lot more now for so many reasons. Just the basics that you take for granted probably before kids. The fact that I’m not having to worry about infidelity, the fact that I know that he wants the best for the kids. The fact that we’re on the same wavelength for our values and the values that we want to teach the kids and all of that strengthens the relationship, strengthens the closeness. It’s not like we, you know, have time to go on dates once a week or just the two of us; we don’t go on vacation without the kids. It’s definitely changed from that point of view and part of it’s just energy: who do I have time for? It is very much like a partnership for now and I think I’ve learned with time that none of this is permanent. So I really do believe that if you get through this, and assuming kids are fine and independent at some point, I think you can go back to that. I think you’ve got— there’ll be plenty of time later in life to— it’ll just be the two of us and I’m sure at that time we’ll be crying about having an empty nest.

I think it’s interesting, too, because as I talked about earlier when I was talking about reading the book, there’s probably more criticism now than there was before we had kids. Because before we had kids, I mean, we might bicker about little things like, “oh, I really was hoping you’d do this but you didn’t so I guess I’ll do it myself” type bickering whereas now I find myself, you know, as I read these books and as I touched upon earlier making these sacrifices, if he’s not doing the same, you know, or if he’s not putting the same level of effort or showing the same level of concern, you know, then I get upset about that. I’m like, well if I can make time for this then why can’t you? Don’t you care? And I think you learn with time that actually we show it and we do things in different ways; so for me I know that I’m gonna be the person worrying about: do their socks still fit and do they need new summer sandals and like, you know, he is not. But he is thinking about other things and thinking about forward planning and thinking about, you know, the admin and insurance things which I don’t. So I think you have to learn to operate as a team and know that one of you is going to be better at some things than others.

8. I love your questions. Well I think it’s different phases. So when they were a baby I think there’s a lot of fight because I always feel like I was doing more and because I was pregnant; he was not. So I know he was trying but he didn’t get hormone change, he didn’t deliver, go through the pain. I was so worried, like, is my kid breathing and he’s like, “yeah of course she’s breathing,” you know he’s worry free. So I think the first few years is always a struggle, you know, we’ll always have some moments but we figure it out I guess. That’s why we’re still together. And then later on as they grow older I definitely see my daughter is very a Daddy’s Girl even though my husband is not around a lot. But every time he came back or even when we talk online she always misses him; she’s always like Daddy, Daddy! So I can tell, you know, the Daddy figure is so important to help them build the character and everything. I think I lost track of your question.

So come back because I see his importance in their life so I start to appreciate the different role he’s playing. So maybe he’s not the caregiver, per se, because he’s not there. Even when he’s around, when he works in the city, he always came back late, you know, I can’t really depend on him for stuff. I can figure out the day to day ins and out but he is the one there to help them shape their character, be a Daddy figure. So then I start to appreciate that. I see that, appreciate that.

So now we’re sacrificing— maybe not a sacrifice going back to Shanghai— it’s a pretty good life. But we are making a big change for his career, his passion, and we’re willing to do that. I’m willing to do that for him, for the family. So I think we start to appreciate each other.

And also I think the fact that he’s been away I think it adds some value because you have to be of your own. I’m almost like a single parent but that help me, you know, learn— how do I handle different situations? I can pretty much run this ship now. In a sense it’s also good that I’m the boss; I can just make the decision. It can’t be even I don’t even ask for that anymore.

9. I rely on him so much more than I did before, for so much more. Just like, making sure things get done for the kids. I don’t even know how people do it by themselves— I just rely on him so much.

10. Well there’s a lot less personal time. I think that because we were also both working and because one of us at least is on the impatient side, I think that it can lead to some tension. People get tired and they get fatigued. And I do too; we’re both guilty of that. And you can kind of take it out on each other a little bit more easily, get more easily frustrated. I think there’s definitely that. And I think there’s definitely less romantic time too, so that can be a problem.

But it’s interesting because there’s also the other side of it, which is that I get to see him as a dad now. I think he gets to be a little bit more 3-dimensional. I get to see this other side of him and he— he was always playful around me too, singing and laughing, and my husband definitely is a very witty person and he also has a very high threshold for being playful. And that takes a lot of forms. And sometimes that’s with us, with my son and me; and sometimes it’s apart from us. My husband is definitely someone who needs a lot of personal down time just to be alone. So we kind of do struggle with that and I don’t know if there is such a thing as a balance. I don’t think there is. In our house it’s definitely much more like a seesaw that goes up and down. There’s never a point where the fulcrum is completely equal, where it feels totally harmonious. There’s days where it’s definitely tilting too much in the me and our son direction and maybe other days I feel like my husband is putting maybe a little too much time into himself, to be honest. But I think it’s interesting to see him as a parent. And I like seeing him as a dad. And sometimes I look at him and I see him being a dad and I think to myself: okay so when he gets a little bit short with me I can pull back and say okay that’s alright I get where he’s at he’s just tried. And so I think it makes you a little bit more tolerant of your spouse’s idiosyncrasies.

It also can be a strain. It’s both. There’s a positive side and there’s definitely a drawback side, and we’re definitely finding our way. Always just finding our way. And sometimes having a child brings out those differences a little bit more. For my husband, an ideal vacation is going to an all-inclusive resort like we just did, and that was fun. For me, because we’re a family now, it’s got a different dynamic; I like to do the tours. I like history. I want our son to be exposed to different cultures, different histories. I love that kind of vacation and so sometimes we have to take turns at which one wins out and usually we find a blend. Usually we do one a year that’s more all-inclusive and one that’s more history-based. In both those contexts we try to find things that our son will like too.

We definitely have our good moments and we definitely have our frustrated moments with each other. And that is exacerbated when you have a child. That’s just a reality. I think that’s a practical reality for all, you know, adults. Whether both partners are working or not I think there’s going to be tensions and frustrations that build up that each doesn’t know the other has had. I think the key is you just have to try to keep the lines of communication as open as possible so you don’t wait for a small problem to build up into a big one. And that’s never been a forte for me. And that’s a skill that I have to work on: not letting the little things that happen during the day build up into something bigger. I work on that. I’m not fully there yet. It’s definitely a struggle point for me.

Because we are different people we have different values. My husband and I grew up differently, different backgrounds. I mean, some similarities: we’re the same religion, and some similar values and some different values. And different interests. We have some things in common and some things not. My husband is great at sports. I’m not great at sports. I like certain sports. I like gymnastics; I like tennis. Lately I like soccer. And that’s one thing that we both started to like together is soccer. My husband loves soccer and I didn’t know that. So we kind of discovered that through being a family. We’re watching soccer now together. Things like that. I try to find— even where there’s differences— try to find the points where we have something in common.

I will never like football. I will never follow football. My brain does not understand; I don’t comprehend football. There’s something about it that completely eludes me. But soccer I get. And then we get our son watching it with us and we get excited and we watch it together. So I try to do that. Sometimes when I communicate with my husband I try to use sports analogies. I try to talk to him in his language. Men and women fundamentally communicate in different ways, I find. So I do try to find ways to communicate better but there’s definitely going to be moments where there’s friction and there are going to be arguments that come up. And I hate arguing; I hate it with a passion. And I hate yelling; I’m an anti-yeller. In his family there was yelling. He grew up with that. And to me, that’s the new form of hitting; I look at that like the new form of hitting. And so I try not to yell when he and I are arguing. But every once and a while you do lose it. And it’s going to happen.

11. So I married my best friend, so we were always a team player. I just found out a very different side of him that I always thought of him as a go-getter, somebody who wants— like, you know, I’ve never seen the softer part of him. That he can be vulnerable. When a child is sick, or the child wants something he really wants to do something for the kid. I’d never seen that side of him.

12. Mom: To me, my husband and I were only married a year; we got married in December and the following January she was born so it didn’t really change it. Because you’re pregnant nine months of that. So we sort of got married and started right away having a family. So our relationship really always involved three people. It was only after she left for college that we really started to really, you know, look at ourselves and our relationship and how to redefine it. I found we have a lot more in common than just: oh where does she have to be? And, you know, school things. And so it was nice to sort of have a natural point for us where we had to decide— what do we do now? We can’t go back all those years and do what we did then because that relationship was sort of an immature relationship; so we sort of had to define that again. Just the two of us and where we wanted to go.

Daughter: We were married for a long time before we had kids; we were married for five years. And I’m still in a little bit of a haze. So that my husband and I are like, what was it like before him? We know we went on trips— there’s pictures so that must’ve happened— But yeah, I think that it brought us closer in a lot of ways. When the baby was really little and colicky— not really colicky but he was crying a lot at night because that’s what newborns do— I remember thinking, saying to the baby, “you be nice, he’s a nice man. He’s a very nice man he’s getting up with you! Picking you up! Walking you around!” And I feel lucky. He is a really good father. But I knew that; I suspected as much. Or else I wouldn’t have wanted to— if I thought he was going to be lousy. No, but he’s great.

I think I feel lucky that we had— I mean there’s been a lot of stress and a lot of tears, you know, in learning how to take care of a baby. But we’ve also laughed a lot? We would laugh a lot at like, 3 AM or later when I would recount to him what had happened. Like once: he would wake up with a start, you know, when the baby was really little— less so now— but when he was really little we were both sleep-deprived and the baby would fall asleep on us and then we would move him into his crib. But sometimes my husband would wake with a start and say, “where’s the baby!?” Like we’d accidentally slept on top of him. I’d say, “he’s in his crib go back to sleep.” And once he woke up and he said, “oh where’s the baby?! Oh I got him” and I said, “No you’re holding a pillow” he said, “no, no I’m holding the baby” and I said, “no. No you’re holding a pillow.” So I feel like an element of the absurd has entered into our marriage for keeps now. We make up a lot of silly songs. We realize how absurd— like poopy diapers— how inappropriate they are in front of other people when they come into your house and you’re like [sings a song about poop] and you’re like: Oh! Oh there’s people here never mind. Keep that inside the family.

13. I don’t know if I’d say the relationship has fundamentally changed yet because it’s been such a short period of time but I definitely already feel like I’ve seen my husband in a different way— like in a capacity that I probably otherwise wouldn’t have had the chance to see him. And I see him showing his love language now in a totally different way. Our son is going to be 12 tomorrow; he is fully capable of putting together his own snacks for camp. But, like, my husband does it every night. Just because that’s his love language. He likes acts of service. He wants to wash your dishes and put your snacks in a little bag for camp. So it’s been sweet to see that part of him in a different way.

14. Ha. That’s funny. I just got my husband a Father’s Day card that listed all the things that were “before” versus all the things that were “after” like: taking joy rides and then carpooling and sleeping in and being up at the crack of dawn— how things have changed. What was the actual question? I think we’re definitely at that stage with two little kids now that we don’t spend as much time as I would like just the two of us working on our relationship. It’s definitely much more about the kids right now. I think we do try and make time when we can but a large part of that too is babysitters and that kind of thing. Since we have our family that watches the kids during the week I feel guilty asking them to watch on weekends and that kind of thing. But I would say we still try and have a date night every— it ends up being once a month it seems like these days.

But it is interesting. I feel like we’ve definitely evolved and, like I said, he is so hands-on and I’m so appreciative of that because I see a lot of my friends’ husbands who are not that way and I just don’t know how they can do it. It’s such a team effort I think to raise children. I think I appreciate him, even though we don’t get the quality time so much, I still really appreciate him. And I think I appreciate him more than I did before now that I see what he does. And sometimes you have to stop and think about it. I would say less quality time but I do appreciate him more. And I do appreciate— when we do have a date night or something it’s that much better if that makes sense. And I also think we both really enjoy doing stuff as a family, which is nice, when we do both have time off at the same time.

15. That’s interesting. I think it’s made our relationship so much better because I really feel like we both appreciated each other in a different way. I never felt that sense of romance goes out the window. I don’t know if he would answer the same way. I never felt the sense of withdrawal of feeling like my relationship with my husband was so different now. And I don’t know if that’s necessarily because we worked hard on keeping the spark alive or something. I just feel like we both really love being parents and I feel like this is kind of a Pollyanna answer because it sounds like I’m just like, “everything is great!” But what actually has been really difficult or challenging is that we were raised very differently so we had different views on all kinds of parenting things. There are times that we really butt heads. And we’ve been very careful about how that plays out for the kids. We don’t argue about styles in front of the kids but we will argue about them otherwise. To some degree that’s because we don’t agree with how the other one was raised? This is not all styles were created equal; that’s actually just wrong— But I actually think that’s been a productive thing because as we’ve worked through them I think that we’ve realized we’re really on the same page about a lot of things. It’s also about training ourselves that being the best parent doesn’t necessarily mean parenting like our parents. Like, it’s not a competition; we’re just trying to raise good kids.

I think in some cases and I’m not saying who, but it wasn’t me, you might not think that the way your parents did it was the right way but it’s still ingrained in you because it’s how you were raised so it’s this natural reflex to respond certain ways? So that’s a fun training exercise. Therapy. Lots of therapy. I’m a lover of therapy I think it’s great.

16. I feel like this is something I talk about with all my friends. So I feel like there’s nothing sexy about parenthood. Again, not better not worse just different. Your priority is sort of shifted to the well-being of your kids. I mean you have a newborn that comes home; they basically have no neck for 6 months, right? They can’t breathe, they look like everything’s a struggle to them. Are they breathing? Are they suffocating? Are they hungry? Are they wet? It’s like everything is for the little person.

It just changed a little bit. But I think you have to go through it together. It’s sort of like a phase, right? We don’t go out for dinner that much alone. We should. Especially moving here: we don’t have a sitter anymore, we don’t know anybody here really. How does it change? It’s just busier. You have to carve out moments in time for each other. Even if it’s a wink from across the room or just maybe trying to appreciate the little things. But I think acknowledging them is huge, too. If you feel under-appreciated it’s awful. And then it just creates tension. When he was working— and I’m a stay at home mom now— and when I was getting up in the middle of the night with the kids and he’d be sleeping peacefully I’d stare at him and be like I want to fucking smother you with the pillow because you can get up too. We can share in this a little bit. But you have to have fun. It’s just different. It’s just a little different. I don’t know how it changes, it just does. There’s nothing that, like, [snaps] happens it just sort of happens. And I think it happens to everyone because I have these conversations with all of my friends. It’s just different and you don’t know why but maybe it’s just the way women are hardwired to just say, “you’re a grown ass man – figure it out and let me deal with the kids.”

17. I mean my poor husband. I would say it’s gotten harder because I feel like I— my husband has said, “you tell me what you need, like, you think of yourself as the CEO of our family and tell me what you need” and I don’t want to. I want him to just know but he doesn’t know because even if he does do it sometimes I’m like that wasn’t right; that wasn’t the way I wanted it. He really can’t win in this situation right now. So we really just keep telling ourselves— and it’s gotten better— that we know we’re going to get out of this. But it’s definitely more of me telling him what to do than it being like an equal partnership and I don’t like— I never liked telling my husband what to do. I never liked that kind of relationship. I wasn’t in charge of him when we were married; we were very equal. He’s very opinionated. And the problem is the more power I get the more I abuse it. Which is why I can’t date a guy or marry a guy who would allow me to walk all over him because I would if given the chance; it’s not a good trait of mine but it’s something I would do. Whereas my husband doesn’t allow that. He’s good and he’s easy-going so generally if I really feel strongly about something, and I tend to feel strongly about more things than he does, he’s like, “that’s fine.” But if he does feel strongly about it we’re going to have a conversation about it and I’m not always going to get my way. Whereas I feel like the shift has been I’m just telling him what to do and he’s doing it and that I don’t love​.

18. I think that in some ways in my marriage my husband’s career had always been center stage; even though I was a professional also, he had this super important job of being a doctor and saving people’s lives and his hours were crazy and so our lives revolved around his career. We moved for it; we moved for all his training. And then when we had a child that kind of had to be readjusted a little bit because as an early mom I wanted our life to revolve around her needs and he still had his crazy schedule and work life that wasn’t changing. So we’ve had to adjust to that over time and now we’re in a good rhythm but it took awhile.

19. That’s such a loaded question. To be honest there’s just totally less sex. I am busy and I am tired. But we try to make date night at least twice a month. It’s matured in one way. I think I’ve become more like him which I don’t necessarily enjoy because I’m a mover and shaker: I love to go out, I love to be outside. And he’s more of a homebody so I’ve adjusted more to his lifestyle which leads me feeling a little— like I have to scratch my head like— what’s happening? So I think he’s probably very happy that I’m home more, that I expect less of him maybe? That I’m not saying, “let’s go see a show!” So it’s changed, but it’s evolving. It’s a constant thing that you hope you grow and you keep communicating and appreciating. It’s a moment. I try to think it’s a moment in time and it won’t be like this forever. And I’ve also become— I lean on my friends more. I try to make more time to be out with my good friends when I can so that I don’t expect him to fulfill everything that I used to expect him to. I try to get it from different places.

20. It has made me fall in love with my husband all over again. I always knew he would be an amazing father, but seeing him in action and how patient and caring he is with the kids is just incredible. He is truly an equal partner, and the bond we have from creating these little people is just amazing.

21. So we decided— we made a pact— when we were coming home from the hospital that we were not going to compare sleep and we were not going to compare diaper changes. So we’re not going to be like, oh well I was up this much last night! And I think that was a really good rule because suffering is relative but it’s easy when you’re tired and you’re cranky to be like, “well I was up all night and you don’t get how uncomfortable I am.” And at first when my husband would be like, “oh I’m so tired” I would be like, “ugh” in my head, like don’t even talk to me about that. But no. He is tired. Just because I feel tired doesn’t mean he doesn’t get to feel his feelings. So I think it’s been good because we’ve had to be more— not that we weren’t honest and direct before— but I just feel like more compassionate with each other and take care of each other and we were good at that anyway but I think we just took it for granted. And also sex. Making time for that. And time to connect. I remember saying before he was born— maybe I read it— we’re going to spend 15 minutes every day of uninterrupted time just talking to each other not about the baby. But it’s like that’s literally not possible right now because one person is always with the baby. So I feel like our relationship is stronger and I love him more and I love seeing him as a dad; I think it’s so cool. But I’m not a snappy person and there is something about being sleep-deprived that makes you want to snap so it’s been like— just effort.

22. Well, before I had my first daughter we were together every second except when we were at work; we did everything together. Every single thing we did together. Once she was born I spent a lot more time with her. We still spent a lot of time together but I spent more time with her so I wasn’t spending every minute with him.

23. Mis prioridades.

24. I think it is stronger. But I think we really have to work at it. I’ve always sort of known that just like watching my parents work at it and just seeing a lot of other relationships around me but I don’t think I understood. But I could totally see how— like when people say, “but then we had a kid—” you’re like, if you’re not in a good spot before you have a kid it is not going to get better. And I think I value him a lot more even than I did before. I think he’s a pretty unusual person in general but just recognizing— and I could complain about the dumb stuff he does: he’ll leave like a drop— and we can joke about it because we’re in a really good place— but it’s just the sort of thing where, like, I can see how in a decade someone gets divorced over like a drop of water left in the water bottle that you don’t put in the recycling. But next to it. Because some days I think it’s funny— most days. But also I show him how I think it’s funny. And I was like, I could put a whole Instagram of things and I’d call it “Where My Husband Puts It” and like I’ll take a picture of like, the key bowl and he’ll put them right next to it and I’ll show it to him and I’ll be like I’m not criticizing you; it’s just really interesting to me. And he’s like it is funny that I do that. But I could also see if we were in a bad place where that would be a real pain point for both of us. But we’re not so it’s just funny. But I think it’s actually made me appreciate— to be able to laugh at things like that—‚ as long as I’m able to step back and look at all the other things that he does for our family. I don’t like when people are like, “he helped.” I’m like, he’s not helping; he’s a participant. This isn’t my family and he’s in it. This is our family and he is a full on— we are partners. So if he wasn’t I think it would be harder for me.

I will say it’s hard— I have to remind myself to be affectionate to him. Because I’m spending all day hugging and kissing the kids and the dogs and like he comes home and, like, turns out I don’t have a finite amount of hugs and kisses but like I have to remember. You’re touched all day. Someone needs something from you or is touching you or is whatever— expecting something— you’re just spending a lot of time giving. So that’s something that again— work. Just remind myself— like the patience thing— I have to remind myself to be patient with him. I need to remind myself that he doesn’t know what it’s like to be asked of and needed and touched all day and whatever. And that if I want something from him I have to give it to him too. I think our relationship is great and I know he does too. Not perfect and not without argument but definitely stronger. But I do often think I see how it can devolve and quickly. And then you’re like— what happened? There are some days when you’re like, I love this person so much; I can’t imagine ever not feeling this way and then 3 days later I’ll be like, you are the worst fucking person; I cannot believe we’re married. And then I remember I just loved him so much like 3 days ago how do I get back to that?

​25. Yeah. Not that it’s a loaded question but it’s made me love him a lot more for seeing how wonderful he is with the girls and he’s such a good dad and he’s so much fun. But also there’s certain— well, there’s certain things that are intuitive for mothers that it’s like how did you not know just do— this—like I feel I’m quick and easily frustrated with him on things like before we had kids it would be like whatever it didn’t bother me. I have less patience with him. I feel like after I had our first there was one time maybe a month or two in where I’m like I have a child now I no longer take care of you where this is concerned. It may have been the first time I got sick and he had to take care of her all by himself and I was like, I don’t know why you think you can’t handle this; she’s not that difficult. I guess it brought to light how much I took care of him before I had a baby. I was great to you. You were like my baby. But you’re not a baby. You know what I mean? I am quicker to get frustrated with him on certain things and I don’t understand, like, why after having 2 why anyone would think that having a baby would save a marriage, because if anything, it just brings to light little quirks that maybe before didn’t bother you but now you’re like I’m not going to put up with that because now I have to put up with this over here. They actually depend on me. So yeah.

Before I went into the hospital with my second I had to write out a meal prep food chart for my older daughter for school. My husband was like, what do you pack her for A.M. snack? Because the day care we take her to you have to supply all the bottles, all the food. He’s like, how many water bottles do I need? I’m like, you do drop off every day so you’re the one unpacking her bag. You’ve never counted, oh, there are 4 water bottles here? Or like she always seems to have a banana and some cheese for A.M. snack because that’s what she likes? You’ve never noticed? Okay here we go. So I literally had to write out like a week and a half food chart while I was in the hospital and he would still call me at night and be like okay so I’m just gonna do, like, peanut butter and jelly for the next day and I’m like, Jesus Christ, where’s the sheet of paper? I tacked it on the board. I put it on the board! Oh, and dinners too. I did dinners.

​26. Well we have less time to just the two of us. And we spend a lot of the time that we do have talking about and planning for the kids.

27. If it was possible I appreciated him more and more and more; he was just the best partner in the whole world. The best husband. The most considerate. The most understanding. I felt very, very lucky. And still do.

Kids change things, amiright? Not just in terms of your relationship with your significant other but in terms of your relationships with friends, family, and strangers. In what ways did your relationships change? And perhaps more significantly:

Coming up: How did becoming a mother change you?

Mom Talk – Part 4

Need something to listen to while you wait up until midnight trying to get a Fresh Direct delivery time? I present to you – Mom Talk – Part 4:

Oh, you’d rather half-read while you half-keep-an-eye-on-the-kids? See below:

Question: What has come naturally to you as a mother?

One thing that really came naturally to me was loving my children and caring for them as infants. I am so into the newborn phase. They don’t scare me the way they do other people. I love to hold them, I love to be with them, I love to nurse them and sing to them. Yes, it’s exhausting. I mean, it is so horribly, brain-meltingly exhausting. But I honestly don’t care. I would have a dozen more.*

Another thing that came naturally to me and still does is treating my kids like people. I have always talked to them a lot: narrating the day when they were infants (“now look what I have I have a diaper isn’t this diaper so teeny and cute just like you you’re very teeny and cute and I’m going to put this diaper on your tiny little tush but we can’t forget the diaper cream here comes the diaper cream! I hope it works! This rash looks very bad oh yes it does very yucky. Okay! We did the cream and we did the diaper and now it’s time for your shorts! Look what you’re wearing today – whales!” etc) and cooing and all the baby-appropriate stuff when they were babies (“oooh look at you you’re so clever! You knew I had that toy behind my back you’re just the most smooshygooshyitsybitsymostadorablecleverestbabyintheworld!) Now that they are getting to the school phase I talk to them all the time about things and stuff. They ask questions and I try my best to give them answers. I try to keep things age-appropriate but I don’t assume they don’t understand things just because they’re little. Of course this is a blessing and a curse. On one hand, I treat them like people who have the capacity to understand but on the other hand I think I expect them to understand things far beyond their years.

What comes naturally to moms? Sometimes nothing. That’s normal. Many of us don’t live the same life as women from days of yore. We aren’t born into a village and grow up in a village; we make our own village when we grow up. For many moms, the first time they hold their baby after birth is the first time they’ve ever held an infant. So many of the logistical and daily tasks of motherhood don’t come naturally. And even if you did somehow instinctively know how to put a diaper on a wriggling baby— I guarantee the circumcision care does not feel natural. Determining the appropriateness of the color of poop? Not natural. For many moms it’s feelings that come naturally: unconditional love (true for me), nurturing (true for me), protecting (true for me), loyalty (true for me), silliness (true for me), forgiveness (not true for me) and patience (not true for me). For some moms it’s structure and boundaries (nope), problem-solving (meh), sacrificing (mmmm not really), being laid-back (ish), playing (no), shaping them (yes) and feeling that maternal instinct (yes. sort of.) As always, it isn’t black and white.

*Can we be backtrack for a moment? I would have a dozen more infants. The infant stage comes naturally to me. But, God willing, they grow. They get bigger and older and more opinionated and more insolent. I love these humans— I really do— but I don’t think I could handle a dozen more personalities, a dozen more attitudes, a dozen more food preferences, a dozen more camp tuitions, a dozen more 1/2/3/4/5 year sleep regressions, a dozen more people asking me for things all at the same time, a dozen more fighters in the ring, a dozen more stories at bedtime, a dozen more toddlers going through a Blippi phase… you get the picture.

1. Hmm… Maybe that unconditional feeling of love? What comes easy to me? Eating their leftover food. Eating their leftover mac and cheese and chicken nuggets. That’s it. That’s really what comes naturally. That’s fair, right?

2. Nurturing. Nurturing, being there, and being loyal. I had a weird upbringing and so to start out being a mom was never something that I had to do. It was something that if I did do, great and if not, I’d be fine. But if I was going to do it, I was going to do it to the best of my ability, and being there for her is my number one thing that I have to do and I do do it well.

3. I think structure. Giving my kids boundaries and structure is something that came very naturally to me. We have a lot of rules but knowing what battles to pick. If my older son wants to do armpit farts around the house that doesn’t bother me; that’s not a battle I’m going to pick. I think it’s fine but that bothers other people. I know that. It doesn’t bother me. What bothers me is whining and bad behavior and being so spoiled and asking me for things all the time. I think problem-solving and setting boundaries is something I’ve been pretty good at.

4. Babyhood did not come naturally to me and I envy those people who did. I feel like middle school/high school is less effort for me. Like having to read to my kids at night— super didn’t mind it— but my kids still make fun of me because I’d be reading the book and then I’d be reading silently because I’d be getting into the story and they’d be like: hello?! And I like having the conversations about what was interesting in class today and doing sort of roses and thorns at the end of the day.

5. I would say I was surprised in how well I have that instinct about my kids and know my kids because it’s something that can’t be learned or read or prepared for. So when you read all those things about like, “Oh your baby will have all these different cries and you’ll recognize the difference,” I’d read it and think: I would never be able to recognize the difference in a cry; why would I know how to do that? But it’s things like that that I think is the natural part of being a mom for me and I would guess for everyone. But I was surprised in myself that it was those kinds of things or just like, seeing how they’re standing and knowing that something’s wrong or that kind of stuff.

And you don’t believe it. For me I certainly didn’t believe until I was a mom that I would ever have that instinct because, I mean, I never really liked kids. I mean I like kids but before I had kids I never had an interest in like, playing with kids all the time. I mean it just wasn’t me. But yeah, my husband Googled when we first had our daughter— he literally probably spent an hour or two Googling the correct way to give a baby a bottle. Because, you know, he just wanted to make sure he was doing it right and have the process you know. So there’s things like that, like best ways to give the baby a bath. There’s things you can do for that kind of stuff.

6. Saying no. I was a teacher for a few years after college and that experience, even though it was only 4 years, it really taught me a lot about discipline. And I read a lot of books on child psychology and all this kind of stuff even before I even thought about becoming a parent. And I think one of the things that was very evident to me, because I was teaching kids in high school, is how lenient their parents were and what that did to their little personalities and what that did to their sense of entitlement as high schoolers. So it was really at that point where I was like yeah, I’m never gonna have a problem saying no to my kids or having those hard battles. It hurts sometimes when you break a kid’s heart and you know you did it but I always think about: this is good for you in the future. You’ll like me when you’re older.

It doesn’t extend to the things, where, you know, as a parent, I will never allow my kid to do x, y, z; it doesn’t go that far. I had this whole thing about iPads and that all went out the window the minute I was like I just wanna have a nice date with my husband. Here you go— here’s your device. But overall I think there is, right now, a big movement or trend or just notion that kids should decide things and kids should have say in a lot of things that are way beyond their years and in some cases that’s appropriate and in many cases it’s just not appropriate at all and I just— I have no problem putting my kids in their place. And also other people that think that they can let my kids say things or do things in their place. I remember how idyllic my childhood was and I think it’s because I was kind of oblivious to everything. I would just get up and play with my friends and I wasn’t trying to change the world as a six year old; I wasn’t trying to revolutionize anything. I was just doing my job as a kid and when things became appropriate to know about that’s when I figured it out. Probably later than some. But I just feel like it added to an innocence in my childhood.

7. I think sacrificing comes naturally— more naturally I think to me than it does to my husband. I’m probably quite— I’m an emotional person— so I think that I’m quite sensitive and probably also a little too lenient with the kids because I think forgiveness and patience and all those things come naturally to me. I think what is a little more challenging for me is that tough love and that sense of encouraging strength and courage and independence because— and part of it is mom guilt— because I’m at work so naturally my base case is I feel bad because I’m not with you between 9 and 5 so in evenings and on the weekends I’m constantly overcompensating, right? And if somebody says, “oh do you want to do this?” I’m like no I can’t do that on a Saturday – Saturday is my day with the kids. And that’s a very natural reaction for me but I think for my husband he’s like, “no but you’re still you and you can live your own life and you should do these things.” But I feel like I live with this permanent case of mom guilt and I must maximize every moment that I have at home which means that things like going for a haircut or going to the doctor’s office or going to the dentist’s office— I’m like of course I have to do that with the kids but mine can wait, you know, so whether that’s a good thing or bad I don’t know but that’s definitely something for me that’s very natural and obvious.

8. I think I’m pretty laid back. I think I see a lot of moms— helicopter— there’s a new word it’s more than helicopter. There’s another new word similar to helicopter. But I think I’m pretty impressed with myself that I can sometime, not all the time, just stay back; let them figure out, you know, when I hear them fight I’m like mmm I didn’t hear this; they can figure it out. When my son cries— just cry it out. I don’t care; it doesn’t bother me. I’m not like, “oh, baby, baby let me figure it out for you.” I like them to figure things out on their own. They can fail. They learn from their failure and I feel like I can do that, which I’m a little surprised by myself, because I know my mom is a Tiger Mom. Even though she won’t admit it I feel all the pressure around academic— it was more academic back then in China. I feel like I was so pressured throughout 12 years, right? 12 years of study? So I don’t want that on my kids. I hope I’m doing okay with that; I still have some Tiger Mom side I know sometimes for sure. So I keep telling myself: let them figure it out. I know I’m not a perfect mom and I don’t know how to be a perfect mom so we’ll just all learn it together. I keep going back to that: let’s grow together, figure it out together.

There are still moments my daughter gives me a hard time. I don’t even know what happened, it’s time to get ready for bed. All of a sudden she just started crying, won’t let me know what’s going on. But the next morning she’s fine.

9. Managing all of their lives, their day to day, their scheduling, their meals and their caretaking even though I’m not there. Making sure they’re well-rounded. That’s really very natural.

10. I love drawing with him. We’re kind of a big arts family and I’ve always gravitated to those things, and we do find that it’s a lot of fun with him because it’s like our art world just keeps on expanding, because his interests just keep on expanding within that world. And we find that, like, this morning we woke up and he’s like, “Mommy, I want to draw with you.” So we sit down and we get out the crayons and I said to him, “What do you want to draw?” and he’s like, “What do you want to draw?” and I said, “No, no, I want it to come from your imagination.” So he told me he wants a cake on a table with a picnic table with flowers and an airplane. So my husband draws the airplane because he invites my husband over to draw that. I draw the people on the table. He draws the table. And we all make art together. And that’s a typical morning, it really is. Especially on the weekend when we have a little bit more time. Then when he gets tired of drawing, sometimes my husband will pick up his guitar and, like this morning, he was playing a song for my son and then he was playing a song for me. My husband is not a professional musician but he loves to play guitar and we have a lot of instruments in our house, so he’ll sit down and he’ll play, you know, “Brown Eyed Girl” for me and he’ll play a song from Green Day for my son and my son loves it. So we try to just kind of be free form about it and spontaneous and the art part of it and also reading. We like to read books to him a lot. And that’s always fun because we let him choose what he wants. And he picks it. He decides. And it helps him go to sleep at night; I read to him every night without fail, and that’s how he goes to sleep.

We usually land at around 6 books but some nights he’s just not tired and he’s having trouble winding down and it can go as high as 9, 10, 12. And some nights he’s so physically exhausted that he crashes out when I’m on the 3rd book. So you know, it’s definitely a case by case basis.

11. Just being a protector, you know? I’m very, very protective about them, that’s just like, I don’t have to try, like being careful about them.

12. Daughter: I think being silly wasn’t too much of a stretch for me. That was in my wheel-house. Even that actually took a few weeks because his humor was not— first of all he wasn’t smiling yet and second I was like wow, this kid really likes it over the top. I’m more dry in my comic sensibilities— But that sort of quickly evolved into being, you know, goofy and insane and realizing that I can just pull that out and that comes easily. And then I pull it out everywhere in public— just sort of anywhere I am —like all over. What about you, Mom?

Mom: You know, I don’t think anything initially came naturally to me except protective. I knew that this was a person that I was going to protect. But I remember my husband brought her to me after and I thought: what am I supposed to feel? I thought it was going to be like fireworks like how they would say it was like a first kiss and you’re supposed to have fireworks and I thought that would happen. And that didn’t happen. But I did know oh, she’s important and she needs to be protected.​

13. I don’t know if this is exactly answering your question, but I feel like my parenting superpower is that I can literally completely tune out whining. Somehow it does not upset me at all when kids are whining about not having a good time. Although I consider myself a very empathetic person, in this particular category, I just one hundred percent feel it is not my job to make sure they’re having fun at all times. And in some ways I think this is empowering for them to realize that they can control their own happiness.

14. I mean, I think I tend to be on the more nurturing side, especially having been a teacher for 10 years now; I think that’s just part of my personality that’s innate. You know, I also think that from my own upbringing I think I’m pretty good at the balance between being firm and also being fun and, you know, loving and caring but not letting them get away with anything and everything, kind of.

15. I think being a caregiver has come naturally to me and I don’t know that I would have anticipated that. But sick children, for example. When my kids are sick, there’s nothing that comes more naturally to me than waiting on them hand and foot and trying to make them better; I don’t find that remotely— aside from being sad that they’re sick and sad for them— I love being in a role where I’m caring for a little human. And also the responsibility of shaping them. I love that. And the older they get and the more inquisitive and curious they get. I genuinely love the teaching: teaching the ways of the world. It’s a tremendous responsibility and I’m always very— if my older son asks me a question I’m like that’s an important question and my answer really matters. I’m very, sort of, careful. And that has come naturally to me. I’m not sure it’s come naturally to my husband.

16. Love. I want to just love my kids. I just want them to know no matter wherever they go in their lives no matter what they do that their mom loves them. And I whisper that in their ears every night, all the time, I’m like, “Mommy loves you” and my younger daughter just, she’ll suck her thumb and curl her hair she’ll nod like, mhm. They know. I just want them to feel it. Because I think sometimes— I teach middle school. It’s a rough age. They’re impressionable and I think sometimes when there’s that disconnect, like, you might stop— not loving your kids— but maybe the affection is there differently. Like, I cook for them and I take care of them and they have a house and clothes but I think it’s important to just feel the love. Not just to have things. I want them to just know. I kiss them and I hug them all the time. Because my parents weren’t very affectionate people. I think they loved me. They love me. But I think they just show it differently and I think that maybe I would have liked it a little bit more? More hugs or something as a kid. And I want my kids to always feel like they can hug me and kiss me. I just like to show them that love. I want them to always be able to come to me for anything. At all. They have to come to me.

17. I would say taking care of him felt like it came naturally. I knew what he needed. I’m very good at knowing what my role is and doing it so I felt like once I knew that that was my role— I don’t know at first. But I did love him so, so much so it did come naturally to just protect him and to always respond to whatever he needed. I had a very strong urge to always take care of him. If he cried or had a wet diaper or to make sure he was comfortable. That came very naturally to me.

18. Not much. For me, motherhood did not come naturally. I was the youngest child in my family so I had never been in a babysitting role much. I had always kind of been a caretaker in some sense like in relationships I was in. As a social worker I was helping other people so I guess I was kind of nurturing but there’s not a lot that was intuitive. I really wanted to breastfeed early on and it was a struggle. It ended up feeling great and natural but it was not intuitive to me. And also I discovered early on that my child was an extreme extrovert and I was an introvert so that took a lot of getting used to. She, even as a three month old, wanted to be out in the supermarket doing things and I wanted to be hiding at home. So—

19. I think that naturally I’m a giver and I want to see people happy so it came very natural to me to give them the best of me. It wasn’t hard for me to walk away from things to take care of them. It was very easy, like, I am at this age I want them. I’m ready to give them whatever they need without feeling like I’m missing out on other things. So I think all of me is what I was able to give them without feeling hesistant. But I’m older too. So if I had them 10 years before now it would be a different story.

20. Being a caretaker. I have a natural tendency to want to take care of people and do everything I can to make them feel loved and safe.

21. I think loving him? Which I know seems like an easy answer but I remember in my new moms group that I went to it was like all of our babies were born within a month of each other and I was like, “I didn’t expect that I would love him so fiercely.” And the facilitator was like, “If you’re in the room and you’re hearing that and that’s not your experience just don’t worry—” And yeah. I think that just came, has come, really naturally. And with that that sort of fierce love, too, like I will mess you up if you mess with my child.

22. I have to tell you, when my first was born I was shocked at how she could do absolutely nothing for herself. I mean I was absolutely shocked at how helpless she was because I had not had any experience with any other babies. I don’t know if anything really came naturally. Putting on a diaper did not come naturally. I had problems with nursing; I stopped right away. You know, holding her and kissing her— that came naturally, but not much else.

23. El amor.

24. I guess I’m good at— it is a lot of problem-solving— that’s how I feel the whole thing— not that every day there’s a problem, but it’s like okay— because you could have a routine but it’s not always the same routine and you just have to figure out how you can back into not just what you want but what works best. My best days, where I feel the best and I feel like I’m really doing a great job, are the days when I come home and I’m like: we did all these things and everyone was happy and it was fun. Or we did nothing and it was great and this started to happen but look at how we were able to fix it. I think that’s a lot of what comes naturally to me. I don’t like to sign them up for a million things. Because I’ve done that and I think I over-scheduled my daughter and I think she was a wreck and exhausted; and I like to schedule a lot of downtime but with that comes, like, not necessarily me entertaining them, but figuring out how to diffuse more things. Or like not just have the TV on. We usually watch 1-3 shows a day depending on the day and the weather. So I think what comes naturally to me is how to structure the day so that there’s a little bit of structure and everyone is happy but also has plenty of time so they’re not just rushing place to place. Because that’s when I feel like I’m always yelling like: let’s go! Do this! Or I have to ask her a thousand times. We talk about “getting her plays out” and then resting. And then making sure she eats, which is always a thing. So, like, a loose structure but with opportunities for her to make choices. I think the reason it’s all problem-solving is because that’s what happens to me in my brain, like, this is how we are going to do this. We’ll piece it together. I don’t know if other moms would say that as much.

In the beginning I read all the books— the ones that seemed to make sense to me— and she wasn’t sleeping through the night. What’s the one that’s so common? I don’t know, where it’s like: you eat, play, sleep is supposed to be the way it goes and she just wasn’t doing it. And the first 3 months were hard but it was, like, great. And then around 4 months— I was like alright we probably need to get a schedule because this is when everyone says they’ll start sleeping and this is when you’re supposed to start sleep training. And I re-read Bringing Up Bebe and we read the Tribeca Pediatrics book— I forget what that guy wrote— we read both those things, both my husband and I, and so in my head we were going to have this schedule that all these are other people have and it just like wasn’t happening and I was feeling like I was failing. And then, I’ll never forget, it was right around 4 months and I was exhausted because that’s definitely the mark where you’re like: I’ve totally lost my mind and I said to my mom, “I’m drowning and you’re not helping me; I’m trying to make a schedule.” And my mom is not a scheduled person ever and it mostly works for her. She doesn’t care so it works for her. Outside of, like, she’s always late for things but, like, whatever. So she got it but didn’t understand. I’d be like, “she needs to go down for a nap.” And like an hour later she’d be like, “well she was playing!” And I remember thinking: this is terrible. I’m not doing it right. I’m so tired. She should be sleeping and other babies are doing this and blah blah blah and, like, when I just listened to her and we had our own schedule and I fed her when she wanted to eat and whatever everyone was happy. So why don’t I just take this as advice but do what we were doing and somehow meld them and that was a real defining motherhood moment for me: when I was realizing I can’t read all the books and take them as gospel because that was going to destroy me and also when I realized you could either be a super structured mom and control everything or I could just learn to roll with the punches and just— oh, that’s what we’re playing today and that’s not going to work and it’s okay. Because when I do the structure I was destroyed. And I really felt that I was failing. But when I felt like, well we’re not gonna get to that place today; guess we’re ordering dinner or guess we’re not gonna do whatever it was— maybe tomorrow. That was like— I became a much better, happier mom. But again it backs into ability to roll with it but also restructure constantly: so we didn’t leave at 3:30; we’re leaving at 7. My only thing when she was a baby, because we lived in an apartment, we needed to get outside every single day. And it wasn’t that hard because we had to walk the dogs. That was the only thing that I was like that has to happen. Everything else we can just figure out. But she can’t and I can’t just be in an apartment just all day. No matter what. But that, I think, that’s when I became a more laid-back person and made motherhood more fun for me. And I thought— oh I thought I was pretty structured and type A but I’m really— I like things neat but I don’t need to be strict on everything.

25. I was surprised— I wasn’t surprised at how much I love my girls or how much I wanted to care for them— I was surprised at how I felt, like, intuitive, you know, when they’re this age and they can’t speak; I felt like I knew what was wrong with them or what they needed to feel better. Because sometimes you read that it is natural— motherhood and being nurturing and everything but I was surprised at how quickly I picked up on: this is gas, this is this, this is that and what they needed to feel better. Like a magic trick. Certain things did come naturally to me in caring for them. Certain things that I have to explain to my husband. I don’t know. If one of the kids is crying— how can I just read their minds and know that— I’ll say to my husband just go pick her up and he’s like, what do I do? I was surprised at how at ease I am with those things.

26. Showing affection.

27. I don’t want to say worrying, right? Loving I guess. And the beauty of having these people to shower love on. In addition I’m gonna tell you something. In addition to loving a husband it’s a different kind of love. It’s very special.

So there you have it: 27 answers to the same question.

Coming up (perhaps not surprisingly) — What does not come naturally to you as a mother?

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Mom Talk – Part 3

Enjoy 40 minutes of yours truly reading in my bedroom while hiding from my children. See if you can hear the gentle fizz of my gin and tonic. Right at the end you may even hear Rowena barking at the mailman.

Question: What do you wish you had known about motherhood?

I’ve never been one who was interested in listening to advice. I resent it. I’m big into learning the hard way. The thing that came up a lot talking to moms is that even if we had been told certain things, it’s quite possible we wouldn’t have listened and we almost certainly wouldn’t have understood. That said, what I wish I had known about motherhood is that the intensity of my feelings would be so strong and that the variety of feelings I feel are normal and okay. I’m probably not the only one who feels them even if I can’t find an online message board about them.

But it’s hard to admit to certain things like— sometimes I don’t like my kids. I love each one of them so much it hurts. When they are being sweet to each other or to me or my husband, when they are playing a game or listening particularly well, when they do things that are adorable like read a book to themselves or each other or when they reach milestones I feel the love and I’m all over them. But when they are screaming at me or kicking their siblings or digging their talons into my arms or excluding one another from games or any number of other things, and when that bad behavior happens to coincide with my moments of impassioned rage, I really don’t like them at all and it scares me because I feel more bad feelings than good. I wish I had known I would feel so conflicted so much of the time.

No matter what moms said in response to this question, the theme running through the answers is that the reality of motherhood did not meet their expectations. In so many ways. Especially based on what is portrayed in movies and the media. Social media is a problem.

Moms wish they knew: that they would feel so much pressure and judgment; how physically exhausting it would be; how emotionally exhausting it would be; how hard breastfeeding is (no really – breastfeeding is going to hurt roughly infinity times more than you think. Breastfeeding is never what anyone expects); how to give a bath; how hard recovery from labor can be; that it’s okay and necessary to ask for help; to make more playdates; how important it is to build a community; how big a time commitment it is; the feelings of shame, guilt, and helplessness; that it is a roller-coaster; that it’s okay to make mistakes; that it’s normal to be miserable; that it is constant and never-ending; that they are like you and not like you in ways that will be hard to tolerate; that it will be hard but worth it; how much they are absorbing even from an early age; how hard it is; how lonely it is; that most babies don’t sleep through the night; that night nurses exist; that their bodies would change; that there is no right or wrong; and that time is no longer your own.

1. Shit. I’m still thinking. Say the question again? I’m not sure yet. Something about how it brings out your insecurities. How it magnifies your own insecurities. How much it brings out your own insecurities. Like how much you question your decisions— something like that. Something like— mothers secretly and not so secretly judge us? I don’t know if I like that; let me think again.

As someone who has a fear of judgment I didn’t realize how much our decisions on parenting make us feel judged by others. How much pressure we put on ourselves.

I got it. I got it. As someone who fears judgment, how much I would analyze every parenting decision I made both small and large. I over-think everything I do.

2. How physically exhausting it is and emotionally exhausting. I figured that it would be tiresome. Not tiresome. I figured that I would be tired. I knew that whole you’re never gonna sleep again; you’re always going to worry, but it really is exhausting—physically exhausting— and I didn’t grasp just how exhausting it would be. I didn’t realize that it would continue to be physically exhausting even after the infancy stage where they’re sleeping through the night you’re still just physically exhausted and trying to get everything done and trying to be every thing to every body— you know wife and mother and entrepreneur. It’s all fucking hard.

3. This is not a fun, exciting, sexy answer but I wish I had been more educated about things like breastfeeding and just— caring for the baby? Because I feel like we don’t have that village anymore like people used to have where their mothers and grandmothers lived in the same town and everyone used to come over and help. I just felt like I had no support in that sense and I felt— I had to hire someone? To help me do that? This is something that your body does naturally; how is it I have to pay someone $500 to show me how to breastfeed? I wish I had been more educated on the little things like bathing the baby. I know that’s a very technical answer but that made motherhood very difficult the first time around and unnecessarily.

4. I wish I had realized— and of course it’s all through current perspective— I wish I had realized how much more I would want to be around when they were teens more than when they were little, little. Like when they were infants and I was taking my maternity leave— I always worked full time— and I was taking my maternity leave and I thought: oh this is when I really want to be with them and it was true. But when they’re teens and they needed to be guided and shaped and I wanted to sort of know what’s up and they’re less communicative and they have more free will but it’s all potentially higher risk— that’s when I felt like I would have reversed the paradigm for myself, you know? Like I would have taken— it’s not plausible— but I would have taken leave when they were transitioning to high school or right before college, you know, to spend the time, to have the conversations without eye contact.

You can’t know how all of a sudden when they get more freedom, when they make more decisions, they accept more risk. And you want to let them take the risk, but you want to guide. And if you’re someplace else for 9, 10 hours a day it’s harder to know whose house they’re at and how to nurture friendships that you want to nurture. You can’t stop a friendship with a teenager but you can not encourage it; you can not facilitate it, but you can facilitate others. You can be the invisible hand. There’s a whole invisible hand in teenagers. I have not found teenagehood to be this super problematic, confrontational situation but it is very different communication, a very different level of need. Super different. They are functionally completely capable but their frontal lobes are not developed by like three miles. The slope of physical growth slows down in teenagehood but the emotional-mental capability growth slope is just stunning.

5. Let’s come back to that one. That’s a tough one. There’s a lot of things I wish I knew about labor.

I think what’s tricky about this question is that I’m so early on in motherhood. My oldest is three so I just feel like— what do I wish I had known? Well there are things I guess I wish I had known up until now but I have a long way to go. But I would say up until now? What I wish I had known are these little things, the decisions that you wrestle with, even a week or two after you make the decision you’ll feel confident that you made the decision and did your due diligence for it and did the best thing you could have for you kid regardless of what the outcome was. Becaue— I just wrestle with everything. I Google, like, the silverware that the kids should have when they’re, like, one and learning to eat. Why do I have to spend an hour on Amazon reading reviews? Just pick forks! So it’s little things like that and the bigger things that we talked about. And again, with the advice to the woman that’s about to have the kid, just know that love prevails at the end of the day. So whether you were yelling for twenty minutes because they were messing around or whatever happened, you can always make up for it; there’s always time to make up for it and give that bigger picture. I think that’s what I’d say. The small stuff is what makes you a mom, I guess, but try not to sweat it.

6. Well so I’ve been a mom now for 5 years, which is not a long time. 5 and a half years, which is not a long time, and I think that there’s definitely been already a huge transition in the kind of mom that I was. When my older daughter was first born I was a perfectionist and didn’t allow anybody to help me with anything. I think that over the years I’ve become a little bit more— a little less crazy and a little bit more willing to have other people help. What I wish I would have known initially was that I should have probably started that sooner. Like, I should have just let people help me out sooner. And I think I’m still realizing things about motherhood that I wish I would have realized earlier, like how important it is to have play dates and how important it is to have the community around you as well. I’m very lucky in that I have very strong— and I’ve always my entire life— had a very strong support system within my family so I never really felt the need to go outside of that but just for my kids’ sake I need to make sure that I am reaching out to the community as well. So I probably would have wished I would’ve known that earlier on.

7. There’s a couple things. If you had asked me this soon after birth I would have said I wish I would have known that those first few months are not anything like what’s depicted in movies or when you go to visit friends who’ve had babies. I think what I struggled with a lot in the beginning is that I was feeling very overwhelmed. I was in pain, my body was recovering, I felt like my husband’s life had gone back to normal and my life had completely gone upside-down and I felt really guilty about that. I felt really awful and I had this battle in my head because I’m like: this is supposed to be this magical time. I’m supposed to be over the moon and delighted but actually I’m scared; this is really hard; I don’t know if I can do this day in and day out for the rest of my life. Those first few months— especially after the first child— you’re feeding, I couldn’t get her to sleep, I couldn’t get her to, you know, do anything. So at that time I wish that when I had gone to see friends’ babies or cousins’ babies or when I watched movies or documentaries or shows or whatever that there was often a more realistic depiction of what it was really like to have a baby. Because I think, like, had I known other people went through the same thing I would have felt a lot better and I wouldn’t have beaten myself up about it as much as I did. And I really did. And it was one of those things where I felt like if somebody came over to see the baby I had to look perfect and my face had to be on and I had to make it appear as though everything was under control even though it absolutely wasn’t. And so I wish people had been a little bit more forthcoming and a little bit more real about the actual experience so that when it happened you know it’s a roller-coaster and you know there are moments that are great and there are moments that are really challenging but it gets better over time. And I think that’s the message that’s huge especially in those early months.

I think now— and not that I’ve had the experience of raising a teenager— but I think now what I wish I had known before I became a mother is the way that children are being raised in our generation, the time commitment I think is very different to how it was in our parents’ generation. I don’t think I fully appreciated how much is involved in raising a kid today. And part of it is keeping with the Joneses: part of it is like I feel like if everybody else is doing all these activities and all these things, your kids kind of have to just to keep up. And whether or not that’s true or false I’ve yet to determine in my own mind because I have my days where I’m like no, you know, they’ve gotta do something so sign them up for tumbling. And then I have days where I’m like no this is crazy and they’re overscheduled and they need free time and down time and time to just be creative. And so I toy with that still. But I think that I completely underestimated the level of involvement and the level of planning and presence of parenting today. Because I compare it back to what it was like when our parents had kids and, you know, I remember riding my bike and going to my friends house and going to the park and that was normal then and that’s not normal now. And if you want to take your kids to the park you are there and you’re gonna sit there for a few hours, which is fine and I think it’s great but I think had I known that in my twenties, let’s say, then perhaps I would have picked a certain career path that would have allowed me to commit that time. And obviously hindsight is 20/20 so I can say that now but actually even if I planned a goal and become an entrepreneur and had my own business and had the flexibility to be with the kids all day I think that’s still not right for everybody and I think that’s an important message too. I think there’s no one way to parent. There’s no one perfect solution, at least for me. I live with this mom guilt and I wonder if it would have been better if I wasn’t at work for the number of hours that I’m at work for.​

8. In a sense I don’t have a wish list. I’m perfectly fine with not knowing what I’m getting into and, you know, I could fail. I could, you know, maybe later I’ll regret; maybe I should do this better, but I think it’s just life as a mother. I look at my mom, I look at my mother-in-law how they brought up my husband. He’s pretty good in my mind. We all have our own way of figure things out. So I don’t really have a wish list right now.

9. What do I wish I had known about motherhood? I don’t know. I don’t have a good answer to that one.​

10. I think that people have very romantic ideas about motherhood. And I think that if someone had just said to me almost, like, appealing to the practical side of it, sometimes life just gets messy and you just have to go with it. And sometimes in the situation you’re in with your child whether it’s over discipline or over something else you have to just go with the flow. And just to be flexible and understand that life can be messy and not react to every little thing. Just kind of, just relax more I think.

I think people get very tense. You know, I have to do things this way and they have this idea and they go into this very type A mode and there can’t be any sugar and there can’t be this, there can’t be that. I think there’s so many rules that come at moms. And sometimes I think you have to take a breath and say let’s just go with the flow. And let me find out what he’s about. And let me not put all these things that come at me in the media that tell me how to raise my child and let me just see who my child is going to be and let him take shape naturally. And instead of trying to mold him into me, let him be him. And let him find out who he is. And I think that’s really important. Let him be him and not superimpose too much of us on him, and, you know, let him just have his own self.

And I think also there’s a lot of guilt that moms are given. Everything you can find a way to feel guilty about, whether it’s you wake up in the morning and he didn’t eat all his breakfast and— oh my gosh he didn’t eat all his breakfast— like there’s thousands of things in a day that you can feel guilty about. And I wish someone had just said to me why don’t you silence that for awhile. Why don’t you put that in a box and close the shelf kind of thing. Don’t immediately assume that you need to feel guilty about something; sometimes things just go wrong and you just have to let them go wrong. You have to fail. You have to fail. And we’re in such a no-fail society— don’t fail—and it’s like you have to fail. And then you figure it out.

I tell my son that all the time, I’m like when you fail, that’s when you figure out. Let’s talk about why something didn’t work. So maybe we can figure out next time why it can go better. That’s how we learn. There is no perfect. Even my son does that now— when he draws— he immediately rips off the paper and he wants to start over again. And I said to him, “no, just use what you’ve got.” And he says, “well no, Mommy, I drew the stem the wrong color; I wanted to make it green but I made it brown.” I said, “so draw over it. You don’t have to start over with new paper; don’t waste the paper. Reduce, reuse, recycle. Just flip it over and use the other side or just color over it.” And I’m like, “it looks beautiful the way it is. Why do you think it’s wrong? There is no wrong.” I tell him that all the time. The wrong thing you can do is turn it over and start over again. I’m like, just fix it from where you’ve got it. And sometimes he likes that. He thinks about it. And I try to get that into his head.

He does that with a lot of things now where if he doesn’t have success right away he gets very impatient. He swings at the bat and he misses; I say to myself, he’s 4 years old, of course he’s going to miss. Just keep at it and eventually you’ll get it. But we have to be more— in terms of society— just less guilt, less being afraid to fail. Those are the two big things. Stop injecting guilt into everything. Stop injecting this fear of failure into everything. And I think that it’s important to just enjoy life; that’s what we want him to do. We don’t want him to feel guilty about things and we don’t want him to feel that he has to feel obsessed with failing at things. He just has to try. And if he fails, okay, he’ll try again. Big deal. And eventually he’ll get there. And if he doesn’t, okay we’ll try something else. But we’re just too obsessed with that. It’s just too many opportunities for moms, in particular, to feel guilty about things and I think it’s on the TV it’s in everything. I think we just need to turn it off and just push that button and say no. Let’s just be organic about it and do things in our own way and if it backfires, it backfires. We can live with that. We learn to live with a lot of things. I can learn to live with failure.

11. That it’s okay to make mistakes as a new mother and not to be too hard on yourself.

12. Daughter: Well I did have a certain mental picture when I was pregnant of what it would be like to have a baby and it was all incorrect. I somehow pictured myself— like, I ordered the Anne of Green Gables miniseries on DVD, and I know they’re not supposed to watch screens, but— I thought he would come out older. And also loving Anne of Green Gables. And that I would wear a chiffon dress and we would like, walk around talking about Avonlea. I don’t know, like, that sounds insane but I did order it so it wasn’t totally a humorous thought; I took it semi-seriously. And then I met him and he was like, you know, a newborn child who had no interest in Anne of Green Gables and maybe never will—

I don’t know I think that one thing that I would say I wish someone would tell you is that there’s no use in picturing what it’s going to be like. Which I think some people did. I’d say, like, “how do you spend the day?” and they’re like, “I can’t— I don’t know. I just did it and I don’t know.” But I would say just trying your best to be present with the child and not coming in with too many expectations of what it will be like to spend your day with a baby because it’s more fun and also more boring and also more challenging than you might picture. All of those at once.

Mom: And I think that I wish someone had talked more about postpartum. In the early 80s people really didn’t talk about postpartum. So if you were, and I had postpartum— not terrible postpartum— but I felt different. I felt like there was no connection. She was born in January and I remember we lost our heat and looking out a window with all this snow and no heat on the 6th floor of our apartment in New Haven and thinking, “I don’t know what to do. There’s nothing I can do. I have no heat. I’m glad I’m not that attached to her—” She knows that story.

Daughter: I only know because she told me because I was crying a lot when she saw me and— I mean I use humor a lot to get around things— but I would say, like, I feel like at night he’s crying and my husband picks him up and I’m hearing this song from the Graduate in my head— Sounds of Silence— looking out the window being like: I went to Amsterdam once— I was at a party— Those are all parts of me that you feel like you’re not gonna get back. And in a way you do and in a way you don’t, I think.

Mom: Do they talk about postpartum more?

Daughter: Yes.

Mom: So it’s not a shock. I love the television shows that, you know, they have a baby and then— like, my husband and I watch Big Bang and one of the characters has two little babies like a year apart. But we never see those babies. And she goes back and he goes to the lab and she goes back to her job and there’s never a talk of— some other character comes in who owns a comic book store but we never see these babies; they never cry. And the reality of: who’s taking care of these babies? What it really feels like to be a parent. It’s 24 hours. It’s 24 hours.

Daughter: People talk about postpartum depression like, “No shame.” “It’s hormones. You can’t help it. It’s a chemical” and I don’t know if this sounds too cynical but it’s also situational. It really is a hard time that people are going through. It was not helpful to me when I was pregnant when people would say “this is the easy part” because I had gestational diabetes and I was tired and I was trying to finish my book and I was like don’t tell me that. This is already really hard.

Mom: And now we look for postpartum. My family— I had left a long time ago— but my mother was working and so my husband and I had a baby by ourselves without any help. Both of our parents lived in New Jersey. She was born January 18th. I went in on December 1st because she was placenta previa. I should have had someone from the hospital come in and talk to me. You have all the makings of postpartum which now we look back: bad pregnancy, separation from sources of support that you might have. So when it was time for them to release her I thought, what kind of people are they to give me a baby? I’ve been here. This is where I’m comfortable; I’ve been living here for 2 months. Can’t we just live here in the hospital? It’s better.​

13. I don’t know what I would say I wish I had known. I don’t know if I have a good answer for that one.

14. I mean you kind of know this or you’re at least told this but that your kids do end up being a lot like you! So maybe some of the things that you did to your parents you get back. Like I said, that is kind of known already, but I guess I didn’t know how much that would be true. I’ll admit it: I’m stubborn. And I’m seeing that in my daughter right now big time. I guess, you know, that the challenging days really wear on you sometimes but then the good days are so worth it. I’m trying to think if I have anything else to say with that.

Yeah, I don’t know, I guess just that not to be afraid to really ask for help and how much help we would really need especially with two full-time jobs and all that kind of stuff. We’re really grateful for that; I’m glad we’ve been able to work that out because I know that’s a big stressor for a lot of people. It really does take a village.

15. I think one of the things I think I’ve learned going from— for example when my first was let’s say 6 months old I don’t know that I was overly focused on showing him letters and colors because I was like, he doesn’t understand what’s going on. And I feel like now I appreciate more that even if they’re not articulating a response they’re really absorbing. It’s not like he’s delayed in anything but I feel like the second time around I’m more— I think that they— I feel like this is not a great answer to this question. I think that they are absorbing so much before they actually are articulating and I love the teaching aspect of it and I feel like one of the things I’ve learned that I appreciate is that you can start that very early. They’re not just sort of little blobs. They are— what’s the word, satient? beings. That’s not the word it’s something like that. Now it’s going to bother me. I’ll look it up. I like carefully chosen words and when I don’t have it, it upsets me. “Satient – capacity to feel, perceive or experience subjectively.” It’s not the right word but it’s fine.

16. Nothing. I kind of like figuring some stuff out for myself. I like the journey of it. Because you figure out a lot about who you are and what you value when you become a mother. What’s important to you is what you teach your kids. So you learn, you re-learn about the simple, basic things of who you are again.

17. I think that it’s really hard. I think nobody talks about that. I think everyone doesn’t want to scare anyone. But I wish someone would have said to me: you’re not going to feel like yourself for six months. If you cry every day that’s normal. I had a best friend who— I was literally crying every day with my older son and my husband went to talk to her husband and he was like, my wife did the same thing. But all I saw with my friend was, like, her great posts of her baby on Facebook. Everyone’s baby is smiling and they looked like they were just so peaceful and I had to hold my son for 2 months. He was like literally attached to me. I held him for two months and so I felt like you should tell people it’s really hard. You’ll get through it: it ends. But it’s really hard and no one tells you that. Until the baby comes. But even then it’s not— no one talks about, like, how miserable they were. I feel like it’s just starting to now— there’s all these Facebook groups out. When I had my first I felt like there was nothing and nobody talked about how hard it was and I felt like I was completely alone. Which meant that a) I shouldn’t have become a mom because if this is so hard and I’m feeling so badly I had no right to be a mom and b) I had no idea that other people felt the same way. Nobody wanted to talk about it because then you feel like a bad mom. That you’re miserable. I remember thinking: I don’t think I should have done this. I loved him. I didn’t want to hurt him; I loved him very, very much. But I was like, if I could go back right now I probably would. Like if someone asked me right now if I would go back, I think I would have said yes. I wouldn’t say that now but at the time, within the first 4 months, I think I would have. And I think that’s very common and I don’t think anybody until now has talked about that and I felt like people were like, “oh it’s great, it’s so lovely, you’re going to love your baby so much right away.” And I didn’t have an issue where I didn’t love him right away but I definitely just felt like my job was just to keep him alive. That is my job: keep him alive, love him, keep him alive. It wasn’t— there wasn’t a connection yet until maybe a month later where I’m like I’m keeping him alive because I love him so much— it was just like, this is a being, you keep him alive. It was almost like a job.

18. I wish I had known that many babies do not sleep through the night and that it’s normal and it’s just part of motherhood and there’s things you can do to help like get a night nurse. I mean that wasn’t part of my knowledge of motherhood at all. I wish I had been a little bit more forgiving of myself when things were difficult and realize that it was difficult for lots of moms and not just myself. But I don’t think I really would have gone back and changed much, I just would have given myself some more insight.

19. I don’t know. I’m one of those freaky people that will read every book— when I zero in on something, I become very passionate about it: I’ll read books about it, I’ll ask 50 million questions to people; so I really felt very prepared for motherhood. I felt ready. When things happen I don’t feel, in the moment, overwhelmed. I kind of do what needs to be done. So I don’t know. Ask the question again? I wish I had known with my daughter that my breasts would change. I wish I had known. Because they were cute and perky. And my nipples changed colors. And all types of stuff happened that I wish I had known that that was going to happen. I wish I had known just the physical changes. My body is not the same and I don’t understand how other women were able to snap back so quickly. It’s different for different people but I feel like I wish I had known how to handle that better and how to maintain myself better. Up until I was 30 I was a size 4 so I didn’t understand how to deal with everything that came with it and I just thought: oh, I can still drink Pepsi and— there’s just changes you have to make and I wish I had known that.

20. This is a tough question to answer because it is phrased in a way that suggests I missed out on knowing something. I don’t feel that way at all. There are definitely things that I did not anticipate— like how helpless I would feel when my daughter was born 8 weeks premature and had to live in an incubator in the NICU for 6 weeks, or how much of an internal struggle it would be to stop breastfeeding when I felt so much societal pressure to continue— but these are not things I necessarily wish I had known. Motherhood is a unique journey for everyone, and I think part of what makes it so rewarding is to figure things out along the way and make choices that are the right ones for you and your family.

21. Okay logistically, I didn’t know how hard breastfeeding would be. I feel like nobody talks about it. I took a class and I was like yeah, okay, I took a class. And people are like “why are you taking a class?” It’s not— it doesn’t just happen. Maybe it does for some people; but most women I’ve talked to it’s, like, hard. And immediately after he was born there’s, like, lactation consultants in my room like, cool we’re gonna nurse! And I was like what?! It was really stressful. My milk didn’t come in for a week. I had a lot of— not shame— but kind of. I think I’m a little— not PTSD— but even now going away for 10 days I’m like I’m not letting that milk supply drop I’m going to nurse him for a year. Like it feels like a point of pride because I worked so hard. I feed him, pump immediately and then he would be ready to eat again and then I was power pumping, which is like 10 minutes on, 10 minutes off for an hour just to try to get my supply up. And like my husband is making me lactation cookies. That’s just like a motherhood logistic thing. And I’ve heard from friends, like one of my friends, her milk just never came in and she was like, it was torture when the lactation consultants came in because I felt so bad about it. Because I love that they’re like “breast is best” but there is a lot of pressure about that.

I don’t know if there’s anything else I could have known. I think I told you I lowered my expectations, like, okay this is going to be the hardest thing you’ve ever done; it’s going to be brutal. So then it’s hard but it doesn’t feel that hard. I was like, “we’re going to war.” “This is a spiritual rebirth.” I’m grateful that I had friends who were honest about yeah, it’s not all peaches. But in the way where we’re talking about where it’s not negative, it’s just hard. It had also been described to me as the highs are really high and the lows are really low and I think that’s like the roller-coaster and it’s true. And it’s like amnesia. Because something shitty will happen where he’s like crying for an hour and my husband and I are both sweating— literally where everyone’s drenched in sweat and we’re like bouncing him on the yoga ball. But then ten minutes later he does something really cute and we’re like, “oh my God!” And you literally forget. So people described that but I didn’t understand that until I was in it. Which is hilarious.

22. There’s not right or wrong. You can only do the best you can.

23. Que los hijos absorberian todo mi tiempo.

24. I wish I had known how lonely it was going to be. Because that really surprised me. And I think I don’t know what I would have done differently and that’s something that I tell— I try to tell people who— I guess I don’t tell anyone but I try to reach out as much as I possibly can because I know when I was a new mom especially— I thought I always made a lot of friends, like, I always found a good friend wherever I was even if it took time, I had, not a group always, but friends. And even at times when I didn’t I knew it would come; I knew I was in the right place. But being a mom it was so— all my effort and energy was going into that, like, learning and all those new things that it was really hard to make friends in that making friends is a lot of effort in a way that I didn’t realize before because it was pretty natural. I would meet people but I didn’t have the follow-through that I usually would or the confidence actually either. I’d question a lot more. Maybe they were just being friendly but then I’d be like, well they were reaching out to me like obviously I’m this way, they’re this way. But the getting-to-know-somebody is exhausting. And as much as I wasn’t on a strict schedule, I still had this schedule and you wind up in the house alone a lot. And even when you try not to be it doesn’t always work out. And a friendship that might have developed over the course of a month in another setting takes like 8 in a mom setting. And I was like— really in my head I thought: I’m going to have a baby and I’m going to have a mom best friend who had a kid the same age and we’re going to do all the same things. Because I’d see other women like that and so I just thought that that’s how it would be. And it took me years to have close mom friends. This year is the first year. And I have a lot of close friends and I’m in constant contact with my best friends; they’re all spread out and not all of them but most of them have kids but that’s not the same as a person you call to come over on Sunday afternoon when you didn’t have plans and they didn’t have plans and spend time as a family. Not having that felt really lonely. Feels. Can feel. Even sometimes now. We have friends but it takes a long time. And also the confidence of recognizing that that person feels the same way about me. Usually that’s not something I question but because it takes so long and it’s harder I think and because you’re just alone so much whether you try to or not and also because I’d watch other moms and see that they were friends and I’d be like, what am I doing wrong? And a lot of it was like I wasn’t putting in the effort— reaching out. Or I’d let it die in a way that I’d never had done before. So I don’t tell people it can be really lonely but I try to put in all the effort if it seems like if I’ve connected with someone and they’re not that responsive; I used to be like well, maybe they’re not that interested and now I’m like well, maybe they’re just busy and I just keep trying. If it’s clear that we’re friends and I know you like hanging out so you just might be the person that’s uncomfortable making the effort and that’s fine for me right now. But I just didn’t know. I just didn’t realize that I would feel so lonely amongst— in a place where everyone is a mom. Where you could look around and see people exactly like you everywhere and be like we’re in this group together but also I’m so much alone.

I also had no idea how painful the recovery would be? And my best friend, I was like why didn’t you tell me? And she’s like, I thought I did and I was like maybe you did and I just wasn’t getting it because I didn’t even have the concept. People are so casual about it; they’re like, you have the baby and it hurts: the pushing is hard and then it’s over. That is not what happens. That is not what happened for me. I feel like I was in pain for months. And so now I tell everyone, sometimes it takes a really long time and it’s brutal and I don’t want to scare you but it hurts. I remember on day 7 with my recovery with my first I couldn’t sit down. I was like this hurts more than 2 days ago.

And I guess it’s not stuff I wish I’d known but I was shocked to not know. How much nursing was going to hurt. I was like sitting there with bleeding nipples with both kids and like I wanted to nurse and I was going through it and they were latching but I was like, how does anyone survive? Any baby survive if this is how you feed them and it hurts. I would dread both times. I would be like, I don’t know how we’re going to get through the night. I would dread every time she or he was awake and I’d be crying nursing them and I’d be like this is not— turns out I got a lactation consultant that really helped. And one of my friends said it takes 2 weeks. And because I’m a pretty—that’s really helpful to me— time goal whatever and I was like alright 2 weeks. And she was right. And then I was like God isn’t it amazing I was literally bleeding 3 days ago and now it’s like nothing; this isn’t a big deal at all. And I know other people who were like, there’s no way I’m continuing with this and I don’t want to push anyone but because I knew that I was able to push through and it really does take 2 weeks and 2 weeks is a long time but all of a sudden you’re like this is the least big deal ever but I had no idea that nursing was going to be so extraordinarily painful. My doctors told me that mine seemed to be a little more intense than other people. But both of them just bleeding terrible. It’s such a weird space in life when your parents and in-laws mother and dad whatever are like, “how are your nipples?” and you’re like, “they’re better thanks.” Or your dad’s like, “did you need anything from the store?” And you’re like, “if you can get me this specific nipple cream that would help” But like it’s not even a thing at that point because you’re like I’m fucking miserable. But I didn’t know that either . Even with my second I was like I can’t believe this hurts so much! I just was here!

How is it that every woman around me is doing all these things and they’re all close with me and we’re all really open about so many things and yet I had no idea. And then I felt bad for not helping people more. Like my best friend who I asked, again I’m like, again I’m so sorry I didn’t bring you food I just showed up at your house. She’s like it’s fine. You wouldn’t have known to do that. I guess I’m not faulting any of my friends who didn’t know either but I’m like I wish I had been there for you more.

If you had told me I’d have been like of course it hurts; like this giant baby comes out of your vagina and explodes it and like okay. But it’s hard to explain. Also my friends— the ones who don’t have children— they get that they don’t get it. Because now they’ve seen more because we’re older. And I think it’s okay not to get it. It’s like I don’t get what it’s like to have a 10 year old because I’m not there yet. I don’t know. I’m not going to judge someone in a way that I might have before. I don’t know. I haven’t been there. Who knows?

25. I feel like this is such a stock answer that a lot of people say, but it’s true: I wish I had known how difficult the breastfeeding was going to be right off the bat and how painful. I don’t know if somebody told me this before and my mind blocked it out. With my first, she just never latched well and apparently my nipples aren’t 12 feet long and she just couldn’t get on board with that, so that was a big struggle. And then with my second, the breastfeeding— she could latch but for the first 4 or 5 weeks I cried every time. The right breast was fine; the left one was bleeding. It was so painful I would let out like moans. Every time I saw it encroaching the third hour mark I was like: here we go. I can’t do this. I would sweat. I would get anxious about it. And I really did not know it was going to be like that at all. I was always so envious of women that I’d see, like, on a park bench just breastfeeding their kid with a blanket over them. I needed a set up. I needed a pillow. I needed to be basically half-naked to do it. I was very unaware of how difficult that was going to be and I wish I had known that just to mentally prepare myself like: you’re going to want to claw your eyes out when she latches on. Just be prepared for that. Now it’s much better and I relish breastfeeding her; I really do. It’s mainly in the evenings. But I look forward to that time with her. But before that it would just be me, like, in bed crying and my husband being like, what can I do? There’s nothing I can do for you. I can’t give you anything to help you. I’m so sorry. And I wish I had kind of had a better idea of what that was going to be like. I had no idea. And then when my older daughter was like, Mommy you’re bleeding. Because I could feel milk coming out of the baby’s mouth and I was like, “no, please don’t waste this! Please keep it in your mouth, please” and I pulled her away and it was just like blood on my hand, on her shirt— That, I wasn’t prepared for. So that would have been— but again maybe someone was like it’s going to be painful and I was like sure I get it—

26. Hm. What do I wish I had known about motherhood? That it would test my patience, love, commitment and sanity day to day.

27. That I could be more relaxed about it. That I didn’t have to worry so much all the time. I was worried all the time and trying to keep everything neat. I wish I had known that I didn’t have to do that.

So there you have it. Just a brief treatise on the things moms wish they had known about this crazy enterprise called motherhood.

What took you by surprise? What would have made the transition easier for you? If only I had known….

Coming soon — Mom Talk Part 4: What has come naturally to you as a mother?